[Blindmath] Computational software

Sun Mar 13 01:05:41 UTC 2016

It's in the display settings. The default setting shows some things the way 
a sighted person would see them. That becomes inaccessible for us. I believe 
we need to set the display setting to standard maple input format. 
Ironically, changing this setting is the one inaccessible part. I have 
always needed to ask someone for sighted help whenever I installed maple. 
But after this, it works fine with jaws.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Guyette via Blindmath" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Robert Guyette" <rags215 at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software

> What is that change you need make in maple.Thanka
>
> Sent from Outlook Mobile
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> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:43 PM -0800, "Aqil Sajjad via Blindmath" 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
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> A quick comment regarding mathematica. Wolfram, the company which sells 
> the
> program, looked into what could be done to make it accessible for screen
> readers a couple of years ago. The conclusion was that with the current
> design of the program, it would be extremely difficult to make it
> accessible, unless the whole program was re-written from scratch. However,
> they were able to produce a code so that you could enter mathematica
> commands into a text file and execute them. The output is then written on 
> a
> separate text file. Every time you want to run a new command, you go to 
> the
> text file where the commands are to be entered, then go to mathematica and
> hit a couple of short cut keys which make it execute the file, and then
> reopen the output text file to read the results. This is of course rather
> cumbersome, so it is better not to make mathematica your main choice. In
> contrast, maple works really well with jaws. Or at least the old version
> which I have on my windows XP machine is pretty accessible. You just have 
> to
> set one particular display setting after installation.
>
> For the most part, you only need one such software to get your work done,
> and maple can be a pretty good choice for that purpose. There can be two
> exceptional cases where it may still be worth using mathematica. One is 
> when
> you are trying to calculate some complicated integral and maple cannot do
> it. Then you feel like also trying mathematica to see if you have better
> luck with that. The other part where it may get tricky is when someone you
> are working with does something in mathematica or if you want to use some
> existing worksheet on the internet for some particular calculation.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath"
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>
> Cc: "Godfrey, Jonathan"
> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 3:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software
>
>
>> Hi John et al.,
>>
>> Here is the experiment I conducted using Maxima:
>>
>> solve(a*x^2+b*x+c=0,x);
>> tex(solve(a*x^2+b*x+c=0,x));
>>
>> The first line just ask for the solution (with respect to x) to the
>> standard quadratic equation, and the second asks for the answer to be
>> converted to \LaTeX code. The returned lines from the output file were:
>>
>> [x = -(sqrt(b^2-4*a*c)+b)/(2*a),x = (sqrt(b^2-4*a*c)-b)/(2*a)]
>> $$\left[ x=-{{\sqrt{b^2-4\,a\,c}+b}\over{2\,a}} ,
>> x={{\sqrt{b^2-4\,a\,c}-b}\over{2\,a}} \right] $$
>>
>> Of course I might prefer the solution be expressed using a plus or minus
>> sign to reduce the duplication, but the point remains that Maxima can
>> deliver with respect to symbolic manipulation. Btw: Unlike other 
>> software,
>> I did not need to specify which elements of the expression needed to be
>> treated as symbols.
>>
>> That TeX is pretty ugly too in my opinion but not all that much worse 
>> than
>> the way Maxima presented the two solutions. This is a great example of 
>> how
>> difficult working in \LaTeX can be, and how fiddly it could prove to
>> manipulate the numerator into the more conventional form \pm b -
>> \sqrt{b^2-4ac} for those students lacking familiarity with the material
>> and/or \LaTeX. Manipulation like this can of course be left for a
>> different discussion.
>>
>> I haven't the skills to drive the other programs you sought feedback on. 
>> I
>> expect Mathematica can match the above, but if it doesn't have a demo
>> version or dirt cheap student licence then it might not make the grade
>> anyway, no matter how accessible it can be made.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jonathan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John
>> Gardner via Blindmath
>> Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2016 8:35 p.m.
>> To: jheim at math.wisc.edu; Blind Math list for those interested in
>> mathematics
>> Cc: John Gardner
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software
>>
>> Wow, what great feedback. Thanks to Ben, Neil, Jonathan, Theodor, and
>> John!
>>
>> Please help me with one more question. I know that Mathematica does
>> symbolic math, but I am not familiar enough with Octave, Sage, Maxima, or
>> Magma to know which, if any, do symbolic math as well as numerical
>> computation. I would appreciate help in choosing the right symbolic math
>> app.
>>
>> Very much thanks.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>> Heim via Blindmath
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 6:58 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>
>> Cc: John G Heim
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Computational software
>>
>> I'm at the University of Wisconsin Department of Mathematics. Around 
>> here,
>> if people are going to use an open-source alternative to matlab, a lot of
>> them use sage. A few use octave. The vast majority just use matlab, of
>> course.
>> A lot of people also use magma. We have the paid version but there is a
>> free student version as well.
>>
>>
>> On 03/10/2016 06:59 PM, Godfrey, Jonathan via Blindmath wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I told John in an offline discussion that various tools that range in
>>> their accessibility can be used in batch mode. I have used each of the
>>> following command lines in experiments. Each sits in a  batch file that 
>>> I
>>> click on in Windows explorer. In each case, I must know what files I 
>>> want
>>> to have the software read the commands from and written to; sometimes 
>>> the
>>> output files being written are specified inside the input file and not 
>>> on
>>> the command line. Obviously, I must know the correct syntax for the
>>> software to get any programs working using the following command lines,
>>> and I have to admit that my tests have been very basic proofs of 
>>> concept.
>>>
>>> For Mathematica:
>>> "C:\Program Files\Wolfram Research\Mathematica\10.0\math.exe" -script
>>> InputTest.txt
>>>
>>> For Maxima:
>>> "C:\Program Files\Maxima-5.25.0\bin\maxima.bat" -q --userdir="." <
>>> "in.txt" > out.txt N.B. I'm sure there is a newer version of Maxima.
>>>
>>> For Octave:
>>> "C:\Program Files\Octave\bin\octave-3.0.0.exe" -q < test.m >
>>> results.txt N.B. Neil has just pointed us to a much newer version of
>>> Octave. I'm downloading now...
>>>
>>> For Matlab:
>>> c:\progra~1\matlab\R2010b\bin\matlab.exe -r BATCHTest20140516.m
>>> -logfile Log2.txt N.B. I do not have this software on my own computer
>>> anymore.
>>>
>>> For R:
>>> "C:\Program Files\R\R-3.2.3\bin\i386\r.exe" CMD BATCH --vanilla
>>> --quiet Input.R N.B. The output file is the same as the input filename
>>> but the extension changes to Rout.
>>>
>>> It seems none of my colleagues is using Maple so our licence has died,
>>> and while I might include command lines for other statistical software
>>> (SAS etc.), I would never suggest most Stats software  be used for
>>> doing mathematical work. (Obvious exception is R of course)
>>>
>>>
>>> All of the above software can handle numeric computation, but symbolic
>>> maths work isn't possible with all of these options. Octave and Matlab
>>> use practically the same code, but all of the others have their own
>>> syntax, which of course is not always thought of as an accessibility
>>> issue, although I would say having accessible documentation is a
>>> necessary criterion to impose on all software. Only Maxima has its own
>>> front end to generate code that could be put into an input file, and
>>> thankfully that GUI is pretty accessible. From my perspective, finding
>>> out what code is needed to do a job is the task of a student's 
>>> lecturers,
>>> tutors etc. Getting people into a position to test that code is one of
>>> the things this list does well.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> John Gardner via Blindmath
>>> Sent: Friday, 11 March 2016 11:18 a.m.
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Cc: John Gardner
>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Computational software
>>>
>>> Hello listers, may I request your expertise on computational math
>>> applications. I am told that MatLab is reasonably accessible in command
>>> line mode. Can you recommend other numerical computation software that 
>>> is
>>> powerful, accessible, and less expensive than MatLab? Secondly I would
>>> appreciate recommendations for symbolic solution applications such as
>>> Maple and Mathematica. I have used both of these and found Maple in
>>> particular to be quite accessible in command line mode. But I have not
>>> done such work in many years and fear that their accessibility is not as
>>> good now.
>>>
>>> I am asking because Summer University presenters want to have
>>> workshops on both types of math application, but none of us is a real
>>> expert on these apps. FYI Summer University is a workshop associated
>>> with the ICCHP conference held in July in Linz, Austria. It is
>>> intended to teach blind students and professionals working with blind
>>> students about modern techniques for accessing STEM. If you can afford
>>> a trip to Austria, anyone in either of these categories is welcome to
>>> apply. Information on Summer University  is linked from the ICCP web
>>> site http://icchp.org
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help you can throw my way.
>>>
>>> John Gardner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Gardner
>>>   |
>>> President
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>>
>> --
>> --
>> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
>>
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