[BlindMath] BlindMath Digest, Vol 129, Issue 3
Mikayla Gephart
mikgephart at icloud.com
Thu Apr 6 00:42:35 UTC 2017
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: skype today, (Bill Dengler)
> 2. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (Derek Scott Riemer)
> 3. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (White, Jason J)
> 4. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (Niels Luithardt)
> 5. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (David Andrews)
> 6. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (?ukasz Grabowski)
> 7. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (Amanda Lacy)
> 8. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (John Gardner)
> 9. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
> Math (Amanda Lacy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 13:02:22 +0000
> From: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cecilia Oyugi <c.oyugi at londonmet.ac.uk>, tolga karatas
> <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] skype today,
> Message-ID: <11D2C369-3E0B-48D4-90C4-E2F9B4217068 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Tolga,
> You sent this email to the Blindmath list.
> Please resend to its intended recipient.
>
> Bill
>> On Apr 3, 2017, at 8:02 AM, tolga karatas via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Cecilia,
>>
>> How are you, hope your okay and well?
>>
>> Just to let you know I will not be able to skype you today due to me
>> having a dentist apt today.
>>
>> I apologise for short notice, but I need to go and get a crown for my
>> tooth fitted.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tolga.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/codeofdusk%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 10:07:34 -0600
> From: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John Gardner <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> <CAA1mknD59FbHnSD6XVbmF3jEvazbd-xRdvsj3gK4MP38gfcdMg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line braille
> displays as of this time.
>
> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line. Do you
>> have references? One word of caution. Having multiple lines is useful only
>> if the software displays information the way it needs to be displayed
>> semantically. This is not at all automatic, so even if you spent a lot of
>> money to purchase a multiple-line display, it could be not very useful if
>> the lines are not properly aligned. I don't even know how to ask the right
>> questions to find out.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Nicholas J via BlindMath
>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
>> Visual Math
>>
>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at different braille
>> displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines. How many
>> lines would be the best for statistics? I was told before that one line may
>> not be enough for proofs or long problems that would need different parts
>> to be seen at once. I wasn't sure if even two, three, or four is enough,
>> but it seems like there is the choice for only one through four lines. How
>> good will I need to be in braille before I can use it for statistics?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nicholas
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to
>>> go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view
>>> the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have
>>> used have still left me not able to see what was happening in most of
>>> my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me because of so
>>> much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the
>>> computer, but I am not sure what to do for things like the boards in
>>> classes, writing, and things like that. I don?t write notes because I
>>> am slow at it since I have to write big and I usually still can?t
>>> understand what I wrote because of how quickly I wrote it and how
>>> unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing things in braille, but
>>> am not sure if that is the best way to go. I thought it might take a
>>> lot of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in some
>>> situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern
>>> correctly the more complicated they got). I have been reading through
>>> all the posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other
>>> kinds of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are
>>> best for the transition of doing everything visually to doing things
>>> less visually. My vision has always stayed the same, but the field I am
>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation
>> and everything.
>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and
>> Kurzweil.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>
> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
> year undergraduate student.
> - Accessibility enthusiast.
> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
> - Open source enthusiast.
> - Skier.
>
> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 16:13:05 +0000
> From: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>
> To: "Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu" <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>, Blind
> Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John Gardner <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> <BN6PR07MB3457FABC8C30E881BAA4C702AB080 at BN6PR07MB3457.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do not exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall, Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve to provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text that can be used for reading.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek
>> Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
>> Visual Math
>>
>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line braille
>> displays as of this time.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line. Do
>>> you have references? One word of caution. Having multiple lines is
>>> useful only if the software displays information the way it needs to
>>> be displayed semantically. This is not at all automatic, so even if
>>> you spent a lot of money to purchase a multiple-line display, it could
>>> be not very useful if the lines are not properly aligned. I don't even
>>> know how to ask the right questions to find out.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
>>> Less Visual Math
>>>
>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at different
>>> braille displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines.
>>> How many lines would be the best for statistics? I was told before
>>> that one line may not be enough for proofs or long problems that would
>>> need different parts to be seen at once. I wasn't sure if even two,
>>> three, or four is enough, but it seems like there is the choice for
>>> only one through four lines. How good will I need to be in braille before I can
>> use it for statistics?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Nicholas
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to
>>>> go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view
>>>> the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have
>>>> used have still left me not able to see what was happening in most
>>>> of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me because
>>>> of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to using Jaws
>>>> for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for things like the
>>>> boards in classes, writing, and things like that. I don?t write
>>>> notes because I am slow at it since I have to write big and I
>>>> usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly I
>>>> wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing
>>>> things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to go. I
>>>> thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I still think
>>>> it may be helpful in some situations (maybe graphics which I could
>>>> almost never discern correctly the more complicated they got). I
>>>> have been reading through all the posts here about latex and having
>>>> Jaws read them and other kinds of technologies, but I am not sure
>>>> what kinds of technology are best for the transition of doing
>>>> everything visually to doing things less visually. My vision has
>>>> always stayed the same, but the field I am
>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>> notation and everything.
>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and
>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>
>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
>> year undergraduate student.
>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>> - Open source enthusiast.
>> - Skier.
>>
>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.org
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-
>> gems-home>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:55:31 +0200
> From: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu" <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>, "White,
> Jason J" <jjwhite at ets.org>, John Gardner <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> <CAC0XhrBotvi5gynJTrO3oiogW4v-VmZ-bmMvDGoHcMj-ixYm9A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi,
>
> here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>
> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
>
> I hope it helps
>
> Kind regards
>
> Niels
>
> 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
>> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do not exist
>> (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall, Pappenmeier used to
>> have (and perhaps still sell) displays with vertical components offering a
>> small number of cells that can serve to provide navigation support, but
>> they're not full lines of text that can be used for reading.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Derek
>>> Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
>>> Less
>>> Visual Math
>>>
>>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line
>>> braille
>>> displays as of this time.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line. Do
>>>> you have references? One word of caution. Having multiple lines is
>>>> useful only if the software displays information the way it needs to
>>>> be displayed semantically. This is not at all automatic, so even if
>>>> you spent a lot of money to purchase a multiple-line display, it could
>>>> be not very useful if the lines are not properly aligned. I don't even
>>>> know how to ask the right questions to find out.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
>>>> Less Visual Math
>>>>
>>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at different
>>>> braille displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines.
>>>> How many lines would be the best for statistics? I was told before
>>>> that one line may not be enough for proofs or long problems that would
>>>> need different parts to be seen at once. I wasn't sure if even two,
>>>> three, or four is enough, but it seems like there is the choice for
>>>> only one through four lines. How good will I need to be in braille
>>>> before I can
>>> use it for statistics?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Nicholas
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to
>>>>> go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view
>>>>> the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have
>>>>> used have still left me not able to see what was happening in most
>>>>> of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me because
>>>>> of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to using Jaws
>>>>> for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for things like the
>>>>> boards in classes, writing, and things like that. I don?t write
>>>>> notes because I am slow at it since I have to write big and I
>>>>> usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly I
>>>>> wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing
>>>>> things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to go. I
>>>>> thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I still think
>>>>> it may be helpful in some situations (maybe graphics which I could
>>>>> almost never discern correctly the more complicated they got). I
>>>>> have been reading through all the posts here about latex and having
>>>>> Jaws read them and other kinds of technologies, but I am not sure
>>>>> what kinds of technology are best for the transition of doing
>>>>> everything visually to doing things less visually. My vision has
>>>>> always stayed the same, but the field I am
>>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>>> notation and everything.
>>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and
>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>>
>>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
>>> year undergraduate student.
>>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>> - Open source enthusiast.
>>> - Skier.
>>>
>>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.org
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-
>>> gems-home>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or
>> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it
>> is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in
>> error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take
>> any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it
>> from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>>
>>
>> Thank you for your compliance.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/niels.luithardt%40googlemail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2017 15:11:57 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <auto-000080312037 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> This did not work for me. It came up in German,
> and I found a link for English, but no change.
>
> Dave
>
> At 01:55 PM 4/3/2017, you wrote:
>> Hi, here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en I hope it
>> helps Kind regards Niels 2017-04-03 18:13
>> GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>: > So far as I know,
>> braille displays with multiple lines of text do
>> not exist > (except perhaps as research
>> prototypes). As I recall, Pappenmeier used to >
>> have (and perhaps still sell) displays with
>> vertical components offering a > small number of
>> cells that can serve to provide navigation
>> support, but > they're not full lines of text
>> that can be used for reading. > >> -----Original
>> Message----- >> From: BlindMath
>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Derek >> Scott Riemer via BlindMath >> Sent:
>> Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM >> To: Blind Math
>> list for those interested in mathematics >>
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> >> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer
>> <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner >>
>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu> >> Subject: Re:
>> [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual
>> Math to >> Less >> Visual Math >> >> No screen
>> reader on the market knows how to work with
>> multiple line >> braille >> displays as of this
>> time. >> >> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John
>> Gardner via BlindMath < >> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote: >> >> > Hi, I am unaware of any braille
>> displays with more than one line. Do >> > you
>> have references? One word of caution. Having
>> multiple lines is >> > useful only if the
>> software displays information the way it needs
>> to >> > be displayed semantically. This is not
>> at all automatic, so even if >> > you spent a
>> lot of money to purchase a multiple-line
>> display, it could >> > be not very useful if the
>> lines are not properly aligned. I don't
>> even >> > know how to ask the right questions to
>> find out. >> > >> > John >> > >> > -----Original
>> Message----- >> > From: BlindMath
>> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of >> > Nicholas J via BlindMath >> > Sent:
>> Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM >> > To:
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org >> > Cc: Nicholas J
>> <314nick15 at gmail.com> >> > Subject: Re:
>> [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual
>> Math to >> > Less Visual Math >> > >> > Thank
>> you to everyone for all the help. I was looking
>> at different >> > braille displays and saw some
>> that are one, two, three, or four lines. >> >
>> How many lines would be the best for statistics?
>> I was told before >> > that one line may not be
>> enough for proofs or long problems that
>> would >> > need different parts to be seen at
>> once. I wasn't sure if even two, >> > three, or
>> four is enough, but it seems like there is the
>> choice for >> > only one through four lines. How
>> good will I need to be in braille >> > before I
>> can >> use it for statistics? >> > >> > Thank
>> you, >> > Nicholas >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 28,
>> 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J
>> <314nick15 at gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >
>> Hello, >> > > >> > > I???m considering doing a
>> Master???s in statistics, but I do not want
>> to >> > > go back to the technology that I used
>> before. I used a cctv to view >> > > the board
>> and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the
>> cctvs I have >> > > used have still left me not
>> able to see what was happening in most >> > > of
>> my classes before and zoomtext made things
>> slower for me because >> > > of so much
>> magnification. Right now I am transitioning to
>> using Jaws >> > > for the computer, but I am not
>> sure what to do for things like the >> > >
>> boards in classes, writing, and things like
>> that. I don???t write >> > > notes because I am
>> slow at it since I have to write big and
>> I >> > > usually still can???t understand what I
>> wrote because of how quickly I >> > > wrote it
>> and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at
>> doing >> > > things in braille, but am not sure
>> if that is the best way to go. I >> > > thought
>> it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I
>> still think >> > > it may be helpful in some
>> situations (maybe graphics which I could >> > >
>> almost never discern correctly the more
>> complicated they got). I >> > > have been
>> reading through all the posts here about latex
>> and having >> > > Jaws read them and other kinds
>> of technologies, but I am not sure >> > > what
>> kinds of technology are best for the transition
>> of doing >> > > everything visually to doing
>> things less visually. My vision has >> > >
>> always stayed the same, but the field I am >> >
>> working in is statistics and it gets very small
>> and specific for >> > notation and
>> everything. >> > > Main Question: What
>> technology and how can I do math more >> > >
>> electronically and less visually? I am learning
>> Jaws, braille, and >> >
>> Kurzweil. >> > > >> > > >> > > Thank you, >> > > >> > > Nicholas >> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 21:14:12 +0100
> From: ?ukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <20170403211412.17d7671f at brutus.lancaster.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> This isn't really a braille display, is it? It looks more like for
> visualizing pictures, graphs, maps, etc. Also the wepbage seems not to
> have been updated for a bit of time, so I'm not sure if the project
> isn't dead (french wikipedia mentions that "it is planned to be
> commercialized in 2011").
>
> Lukasz
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:55:31 +0200
> Niels Luithardt via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>>
>> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
>>
>> I hope it helps
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Niels
>>
>> 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
>>> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do
>>> not exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall,
>>> Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with
>>> vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve
>>> to provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text
>>> that can be used for reading.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Derek Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>>>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math
>>>> to Less
>>>> Visual Math
>>>>
>>>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line
>>>> braille
>>>> displays as of this time.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one
>>>>> line. Do you have references? One word of caution. Having
>>>>> multiple lines is useful only if the software displays
>>>>> information the way it needs to be displayed semantically. This
>>>>> is not at all automatic, so even if you spent a lot of money to
>>>>> purchase a multiple-line display, it could be not very useful if
>>>>> the lines are not properly aligned. I don't even know how to ask
>>>>> the right questions to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>> Of Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual
>>>>> Math to Less Visual Math
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at
>>>>> different braille displays and saw some that are one, two,
>>>>> three, or four lines. How many lines would be the best for
>>>>> statistics? I was told before that one line may not be enough
>>>>> for proofs or long problems that would need different parts to
>>>>> be seen at once. I wasn't sure if even two, three, or four is
>>>>> enough, but it seems like there is the choice for only one
>>>>> through four lines. How good will I need to be in braille before
>>>>> I can
>>>> use it for statistics?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J
>>>>> <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not
>>>>>> want to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a
>>>>>> cctv to view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All
>>>>>> the cctvs I have used have still left me not able to see what
>>>>>> was happening in most of my classes before and zoomtext made
>>>>>> things slower for me because of so much magnification. Right
>>>>>> now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I
>>>>>> am not sure what to do for things like the boards in classes,
>>>>>> writing, and things like that. I don?t write notes because I
>>>>>> am slow at it since I have to write big and I usually still
>>>>>> can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly I wrote
>>>>>> it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing
>>>>>> things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to
>>>>>> go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I
>>>>>> still think it may be helpful in some situations (maybe
>>>>>> graphics which I could almost never discern correctly the more
>>>>>> complicated they got). I have been reading through all the
>>>>>> posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other
>>>>>> kinds of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of
>>>>>> technology are best for the transition of doing everything
>>>>>> visually to doing things less visually. My vision has always
>>>>>> stayed the same, but the field I am
>>>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>>>> notation and everything.
>>>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>>>>>> and
>>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>>>
>>>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer
>>>> science, 4th year undergraduate student.
>>>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>>>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>> - Open source enthusiast.
>>>> - Skier.
>>>>
>>>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.org
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath- gems-home>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain
>>> privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the
>>> individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly.
>>> If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do
>>> not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on
>>> the contents of this information; and delete it from your system.
>>> Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your compliance.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/niels.luithardt%40googlemail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/graboluk%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:17:29 -0500
> From: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> <CABKqQvETE+8Zcm0NWUoMiWZZLCGb1gLdS8OZ9j6Nb=JyRiBZNQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> You can't get one. Therefore, useless.
>
> On 4/3/17, ?ukasz Grabowski via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> This isn't really a braille display, is it? It looks more like for
>> visualizing pictures, graphs, maps, etc. Also the wepbage seems not to
>> have been updated for a bit of time, so I'm not sure if the project
>> isn't dead (french wikipedia mentions that "it is planned to be
>> commercialized in 2011").
>>
>> Lukasz
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:55:31 +0200
>> Niels Luithardt via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>>>
>>> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
>>>
>>> I hope it helps
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Niels
>>>
>>> 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
>>>> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do
>>>> not exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall,
>>>> Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with
>>>> vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve
>>>> to provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text
>>>> that can be used for reading.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Derek Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>>>>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math
>>>>> to Less
>>>>> Visual Math
>>>>>
>>>>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line
>>>>> braille
>>>>> displays as of this time.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one
>>>>>> line. Do you have references? One word of caution. Having
>>>>>> multiple lines is useful only if the software displays
>>>>>> information the way it needs to be displayed semantically. This
>>>>>> is not at all automatic, so even if you spent a lot of money to
>>>>>> purchase a multiple-line display, it could be not very useful if
>>>>>> the lines are not properly aligned. I don't even know how to ask
>>>>>> the right questions to find out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual
>>>>>> Math to Less Visual Math
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at
>>>>>> different braille displays and saw some that are one, two,
>>>>>> three, or four lines. How many lines would be the best for
>>>>>> statistics? I was told before that one line may not be enough
>>>>>> for proofs or long problems that would need different parts to
>>>>>> be seen at once. I wasn't sure if even two, three, or four is
>>>>>> enough, but it seems like there is the choice for only one
>>>>>> through four lines. How good will I need to be in braille before
>>>>>> I can
>>>>> use it for statistics?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J
>>>>>> <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not
>>>>>>> want to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a
>>>>>>> cctv to view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All
>>>>>>> the cctvs I have used have still left me not able to see what
>>>>>>> was happening in most of my classes before and zoomtext made
>>>>>>> things slower for me because of so much magnification. Right
>>>>>>> now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I
>>>>>>> am not sure what to do for things like the boards in classes,
>>>>>>> writing, and things like that. I don?t write notes because I
>>>>>>> am slow at it since I have to write big and I usually still
>>>>>>> can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly I wrote
>>>>>>> it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing
>>>>>>> things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to
>>>>>>> go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I
>>>>>>> still think it may be helpful in some situations (maybe
>>>>>>> graphics which I could almost never discern correctly the more
>>>>>>> complicated they got). I have been reading through all the
>>>>>>> posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other
>>>>>>> kinds of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of
>>>>>>> technology are best for the transition of doing everything
>>>>>>> visually to doing things less visually. My vision has always
>>>>>>> stayed the same, but the field I am
>>>>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>>>>> notation and everything.
>>>>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for BlindMath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for BlindMath:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>>>>
>>>>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer
>>>>> science, 4th year undergraduate student.
>>>>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>>>>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>>> - Open source enthusiast.
>>>>> - Skier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.org
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath- gems-home>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain
>>>> privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the
>>>> individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly.
>>>> If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do
>>>> not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on
>>>> the contents of this information; and delete it from your system.
>>>> Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your compliance.
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/niels.luithardt%40googlemail.com
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/graboluk%40gmail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 20:55:30 -0700
> From: "John Gardner" <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <003e01d2acf7$4e131a20$ea394e60$@oregonstate.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> This hyperbraille device exists - I have seen it at the Sight City show in Frankfurt. However if it is for sale, that does seem to be a deep secret. I have been told that the next model will be less expensive, possibly costing less than US$100,000. It is a bit smaller than an 8.5x11 paper and has resolution of approximately 0.10 inch - which is okay for braille though with more than the usual inter-cell spacing. I do not know anything about supporting software. My advice is not to hold your breath waiting for it to come to market. At best it will never be something that the average blind user can afford. I do not believe that the technology can be scaled to be inexpensive at any volume.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Niels Luithardt via BlindMath
> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 11:56 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>; John Gardner <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual Math
>
> Hi,
>
> here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>
> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
>
> I hope it helps
>
> Kind regards
>
> Niels
>
> 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
>> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do not
>> exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall,
>> Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with
>> vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve to
>> provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text that can be used for reading.
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Derek Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
>>> Less Visual Math
>>>
>>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line
>>> braille displays as of this time.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line.
>>>> Do you have references? One word of caution. Having multiple lines
>>>> is useful only if the software displays information the way it
>>>> needs to be displayed semantically. This is not at all automatic,
>>>> so even if you spent a lot of money to purchase a multiple-line
>>>> display, it could be not very useful if the lines are not properly
>>>> aligned. I don't even know how to ask the right questions to find out.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math
>>>> to Less Visual Math
>>>>
>>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at different
>>>> braille displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines.
>>>> How many lines would be the best for statistics? I was told before
>>>> that one line may not be enough for proofs or long problems that
>>>> would need different parts to be seen at once. I wasn't sure if
>>>> even two, three, or four is enough, but it seems like there is the
>>>> choice for only one through four lines. How good will I need to be
>>>> in braille before I can
>>> use it for statistics?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Nicholas
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want
>>>>> to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to
>>>>> view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs
>>>>> I have used have still left me not able to see what was happening
>>>>> in most of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for
>>>>> me because of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning
>>>>> to using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for
>>>>> things like the boards in classes, writing, and things like that.
>>>>> I don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write
>>>>> big and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of
>>>>> how quickly I wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been
>>>>> looking at doing things in braille, but am not sure if that is
>>>>> the best way to go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to
>>>>> learn it. I still think it may be helpful in some situations
>>>>> (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern correctly the
>>>>> more complicated they got). I have been reading through all the
>>>>> posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other kinds
>>>>> of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are
>>>>> best for the transition of doing everything visually to doing
>>>>> things less visually. My vision has always stayed the same, but
>>>>> the field I am
>>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>>> notation and everything.
>>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>>>>> and
>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
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>>>> for
>>>> BlindMath:
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>>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> for
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>>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>>
>>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
>>> year undergraduate student.
>>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>> - Open source enthusiast.
>>> - Skier.
>>>
>>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
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>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.
>>> org BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-
>>> gems-home>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 23:10:11 -0500
> From: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> <CABKqQvESci2bR-kXBNuFUJKVJ9A81x_+tfS-2XGrTGvyeZh+HQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>> I have been told that the next model will be less expensive, possibly costing less than
>> US$100,000.
>
> Does anyone else find the absurdity as funny as I do?
>
> At possibly less than $100000 no one will buy them, not even agencies
> for the blind. So all that effort went to produce something that no
> one will ever use.
>
> On 4/3/17, John Gardner via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> This hyperbraille device exists - I have seen it at the Sight City show in
>> Frankfurt. However if it is for sale, that does seem to be a deep secret. I
>> have been told that the next model will be less expensive, possibly costing
>> less than US$100,000. It is a bit smaller than an 8.5x11 paper and has
>> resolution of approximately 0.10 inch - which is okay for braille though
>> with more than the usual inter-cell spacing. I do not know anything about
>> supporting software. My advice is not to hold your breath waiting for it to
>> come to market. At best it will never be something that the average blind
>> user can afford. I do not believe that the technology can be scaled to be
>> inexpensive at any volume.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Niels
>> Luithardt via BlindMath
>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 11:56 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Niels Luithardt <niels.luithardt at googlemail.com>; John Gardner
>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
>> Visual Math
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> here is a Link to "Hyperbraille":
>>
>> http://www.hyperbraille.de/?lang=en
>>
>> I hope it helps
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Niels
>>
>> 2017-04-03 18:13 GMT+02:00, White, Jason J via BlindMath
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>:
>>> So far as I know, braille displays with multiple lines of text do not
>>> exist (except perhaps as research prototypes). As I recall,
>>> Pappenmeier used to have (and perhaps still sell) displays with
>>> vertical components offering a small number of cells that can serve to
>>> provide navigation support, but they're not full lines of text that can be
>>> used for reading.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Derek Scott Riemer via BlindMath
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 12:08 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Derek Scott Riemer <Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu>; John Gardner
>>>> <gardnerj at oregonstate.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
>>>> Less Visual Math
>>>>
>>>> No screen reader on the market knows how to work with multiple line
>>>> braille displays as of this time.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 7:59 PM, John Gardner via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, I am unaware of any braille displays with more than one line.
>>>>> Do you have references? One word of caution. Having multiple lines
>>>>> is useful only if the software displays information the way it
>>>>> needs to be displayed semantically. This is not at all automatic,
>>>>> so even if you spent a lot of money to purchase a multiple-line
>>>>> display, it could be not very useful if the lines are not properly
>>>>> aligned. I don't even know how to ask the right questions to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Nicholas J via BlindMath
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 12:33 PM
>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math
>>>>> to Less Visual Math
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you to everyone for all the help. I was looking at different
>>>>> braille displays and saw some that are one, two, three, or four lines.
>>>>> How many lines would be the best for statistics? I was told before
>>>>> that one line may not be enough for proofs or long problems that
>>>>> would need different parts to be seen at once. I wasn't sure if
>>>>> even two, three, or four is enough, but it seems like there is the
>>>>> choice for only one through four lines. How good will I need to be
>>>>> in braille before I can
>>>> use it for statistics?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want
>>>>>> to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to
>>>>>> view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs
>>>>>> I have used have still left me not able to see what was happening
>>>>>> in most of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for
>>>>>> me because of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning
>>>>>> to using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for
>>>>>> things like the boards in classes, writing, and things like that.
>>>>>> I don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write
>>>>>> big and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of
>>>>>> how quickly I wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been
>>>>>> looking at doing things in braille, but am not sure if that is
>>>>>> the best way to go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to
>>>>>> learn it. I still think it may be helpful in some situations
>>>>>> (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern correctly the
>>>>>> more complicated they got). I have been reading through all the
>>>>>> posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other kinds
>>>>>> of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are
>>>>>> best for the transition of doing everything visually to doing
>>>>>> things less visually. My vision has always stayed the same, but
>>>>>> the field I am
>>>>> working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>>>>> notation and everything.
>>>>>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>>>>>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>>>>>> and
>>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicholas
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> john.gardner%40orst.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> BlindMath:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>>>> derek.riemer%40colorado.edu
>>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>>>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>>>>
>>>> - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
>>>> year undergraduate student.
>>>> - Accessibility enthusiast.
>>>> - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>>>> - Open source enthusiast.
>>>> - Skier.
>>>>
>>>> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> BlindMath mailing list
>>>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> BlindMath:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/jjwhite%40ets.
>>>> org BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-
>>>> gems-home>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged
>>> or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual
>>> for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you
>>> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not
>>> disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the
>>> contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other
>>> use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your compliance.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BlindMath mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> BlindMath:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/niels.luithardt
>>> %40googlemail.com
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>
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>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 129, Issue 3
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