[Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: Reintroducing myself and beta test opportunity for new STEM accessibility service.
Łukasz Grabowski
graboluk at gmail.com
Wed Feb 8 22:54:41 UTC 2017
Yes, it first converts latex to xml and then xml to html with mathml.
It works remarkably well.
On Wed, 08 Feb 2017 15:51:00 -0700
Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Thanks Lukasz. Will LaTeXML also convert xml files to HTML with
> MathML?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Russell
>
> >>> *ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-08
> 2:27 PM >>>
> Let me add that In addition to LaTeX Access, or perhaps instead of it,
> it is very convenient to use latexml which converts LaTeX to HTML with
> MathML, and this can be then read by NVDA.
>
> Best,
> *ukasz
>
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 21:22:11 +0000
> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Russell,
> >
> > Let me start with XML as Jason covered it rather well. The point is,
> > that as long as you can convert the xml format into html including
> > MathML, it can be read by screen readers given they support MathML.
> > For instance JFW and Voice Over does. This case both speech and
> > braille should be rendered fine, disregarding minor issues that are
> > inevitable in software development. You would typically open these
> > documents in a web browser. However editing these documents are more
> > difficult due to the nature of xml tags. Also, I am not aware of too
> > many xml to html+MathML convertors that are easy to use out of the
> > box.
> >
> > Now LaTeX is just an other markup language. Normally this is the
> > preferred language for writing publications, books, as it is easy to
> > edit and also can be compiled into pdf files with chosen style
> > sheets. It is more likely that authors that wrote their books after
> > the 90s, will have done that in LaTeX. It is usually the publisher
> > who transforms LaTeX sources into XML for further processing, e.g.
> > Daisy, or ePub.
> >
> > Also, even though authors with books written after the 90s can
> > have
> a
> > personal LaTeX copy, they might be hesitant to share these source
> > code files, as in theory it could be edited and re published. In my
> > case, we managed to get books from kind authors one of our faculty
> > member knew as a friend or colleague and personally guaranteed that
> > the copy won*t be distributed or misused.
> >
> > These LaTeX source codes can be opened in a text editor. Using
> > auxiliary software such as, the LaTeX Access the following LaTeX
> > code: \frac{2}{x} would be translated into speech and read out as
> *2
> > over x*. As long as LaTeX Access is configured correctly, this can
> be
> > achieved using JAWS, NVDA as well, both in speech and braille.
> >
> > For speech translation I am not aware of any other translation
> tools,
> > but for braille there are solutions like the Duxbury.
> >
> > Hope this answers some of your questions. Don*t worry, there are
> > never too many questions, just too little answers. So feel free to
> > ask more.
> >
> > Daniel
> > > On 8 Feb 2017, at 17:25, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath
> > > <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Dániel,
> > >
> > > I'm curious about your comment regarding obtaining a textbook from
> > > the author in LaTeX or xml formats. If an author is able to
> provide
> > > his text in either of these formats, would a student using Jaws or
> > > VoiceOver be able to read the textbook and understand all the math
> > > content within? I'm not at all familiar with LaTeX, so am not
> quite
> > > sure how this would work. What would be needed if a LaTeX of the
> > > text could be obtained? Math Player? Another software program? Do
> > > most authors of STEM textbooks have a LaTeX or xml format of their
> > > textbooks? Would an xml format be able to be read using a screen
> > > reader?
> > >
> > > Lots of questions, I know, but, thanks for any information you can
> > > provide.
> > >
> > > Russell
> > >
> > > Russell Solowoniuk
> > > AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> > > MacEwan University
> > > 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> > > Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
> > > E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> > > T: 780-497-5826
> > > F: 780-497-4018
> > > macewan.ca
> > > This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to
> whom
> > > it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
> > > privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are
> > > not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not copy,
> > > distribute, or take action relying on it. Any communication
> > > received in error, or subsequent reply, should be deleted or
> > > destroyed. Please consider the environment before printing this
> > > email.
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-07
> > >>>> 4:07
> > > AM >>>
> > > Dear Lukasz,
> > >
> > > Excellent question. This is a topic that can not be fully explored
> > > within an e-mail but let me perhaps give a few key points that
> > > worked for me:
> > > * First and foremost, let*s establish that screen magnification
> and
> > > screen reading have very different requirements, which of course
> can
> > > often complement each other.
> > > * For writing, reading and editing mathematical content, let it be
> > > lecture notes, assessments and so on, I believe it is inevitable
> to
> > > be familiar the LaTeX markup language, and for screen reading
> > > purposes use for instance the LaTeX Access Project under Windows,
> > > which I am most people from this list are familiar with. It is
> good
> > > practise to provide lecture notes in LaTeX for this reason,
> > > which
> I
> > > know some UK Maths and Physics departments do.
> > > * I think it is also very important to have a basic
> > > understanding
> of
> > > how for instance JAWS for Windows and Voice Over can read MathML
> > > content, or other screen readers using products like MathPlayer by
> > > Design Science; and be aware of online resources such as, DLMF
> > > (Digital Library of Mathematical Functions) developed by NIST,
> > > which provide high-level content both in LaTeX and MathML formats.
> > > * Finding accessible mathematics books is a different chapter,
> often
> > > very difficult. Approaching authors, perhaps instead of publishers
> > > might speed up and increase chances of finding alternative formats
> > > of eBooks such as, LaTeX or XML instead of PDF. Daisy with MathML
> > > is an option, but I haven*t seen many examples for that yet.
> > > * It is good practise to have a high-standard calculator, e.g. the
> > > APH + Orbit Research developed Orion Texas Instrument
> audio-graphing
> > > display calculator. Equally, it is important to do these sort of
> > > computations or graph sketching on non GUI programmes, such as
> > > Python. The audio graphing calculator or alternative sonification
> > > software such as the vOICe can help students visualise the shape
> > > and trends of curves, functions, limits. While using Python or
> > > other interpreted languages enable students to sketch their own
> > > graphs fairly easily and have higher control over the output, than
> > > for instance Ms Excel, which on occasions might be a little
> > > inconvenient for this purpose.
> > > * Tactile Graphics embossers such as View+ Technologies provides
> can
> > > also help in the students understanding of graphs; however, this
> is
> > > something that needs practise and a fair amount of time to learn
> to
> > > use.
> > > * Obviously, not only the technical but the human support
> > > element
> is
> > > also rather relevant to be successful as a vision impaired maths
> or
> > > STEM student. Standards such as extra time for exams, assessments,
> > > additional office hours or someone who can help with taking notes
> > > from the blackboard if appropriate and necessary. We can not
> ignore
> > > the fact, that no matter how fluent someone is in using any of the
> > > above technical solutions, it will always take longer to view, or
> > > read, write a markup language, a graph etc.
> > >
> > > There are additional software solutions and accessibility concerns
> > > for instance with regards to the Infty Project to OCR mathematical
> > > documents in order to access further resources, or the often
> quoted
> > > accessibility questions around mathematical software such as
> > > MatLab, Wolfram Mathematica etc. How efficient these technologies
> > > are always a question one needs to evaluate.
> > >
> > > As I said this is just scraping the top of the ice-mountain, and
> > > there are many details, other options; but I hope this is a good
> > > overview for a starter and can trigger some further questions,
> > > conversations. The above are my practises, experiences from the
> > > few years of being a blind scientist and I am sure, as many
> > > students, teachers, educators, support workers there are concerned
> > > in this field, there are just as many, slightly different ways of
> > > approaching the same challenge.
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >> On 6 Feb 2017, at 23:00, *ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath
> > > <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Dear Daniel,
> > >>
> > >> This is not directly related to your email to blindmath email
> > >> group.
> > > I'm
> > >> a maths lecturer at Lancaster university (sighted). I was
> > >> wondering
> > > if
> > >> you could tell me how do you learn advanced, university
> > >> level,
> > > maths?
> > >>
> > >> I'm preparing some accessible lecture notes for a visually
> impaired
> > >> student at my institution. She currently reads the lecture notes
> > >> on
> > > a
> > >> very high zoom level, but I'd be very keen to hear from
> > >> succesful
>
> > > maths
> > >> students how do they cope, in order to potentially improve our
> > >> approach.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Lukasz
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 22:25:25 +0000
> > >> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Lucas, Zach,
> > >>>
> > >>> Lucas, thanks for your quick introduction. I don*t see why you
> > >>> wouldn*t be able to help as an undergraduate, especially with
> the
> > >>> great qualifications and skills you have been gathering during
> > >>> your degree. In fact, I would be happy if you could help with
> > >>> trying out IRIS and letting the Grapheel team know if you think
> > >>> it would
> > > assist
> > >>> you during your science learning, and if not, how it could
> > >>> be
> > > changed
> > >>> to be more useful. It*s great you*ve done physics and
> > >>> chemistry.
>
> > > IRIS
> > >>> currently supports maths, physics, and to a lower extent
> > >>> biology
>
> > > and
> > >>> chemistry. However, in the near future, computer science and
> > > finances
> > >>> support should be added.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you are happy to try IRIS, either let me know, or even better
> > >>> if you drop a line to contact at grapheel.com
> > >>> <mailto:contact at grapheel.com>, and I am sure the IRIS
> > >>> developers
>
> > > will
> > >>> get back to you soon with details.
> > >>>
> > >>> You really don*t need to thank me for proposing the
> > >>> initiative,
> I
> > >>> simply encountered challenges that I believe still need
> solutions,
> > >>> and we try to create these solutions in the best way we can.
> > >>>
> > >>> Zach, thanks for the enthusiastic reply, I*ll get back to you
> > >>> on
>
> > > that
> > >>> in a private message, to save the list members some irrelevant
> > >>> reading. If you don*t hear from me in the next 1-2 days,
> > >>> please
>
> > > send
> > >>> me a reminder in a private mail.
> > >>>
> > >>> Best wishes,
> > >>> Daniel
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 6 Feb 2017, at 16:11, Lucas Nadolskis via Blindmath
> > >>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hello Dr. Hajas.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am currently a student of computer science at the University
> > >>>> of Minnesota. I needed to take physics, and calculus courses
> > >>>> last year and I am currently taking chemistry and linear
> > >>>> algebra. I encountered numerous issues either on the past and
> on
> > >>>> the current semester on accessibility on this area of study.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So first I want to thank you for this idea of making the
> > >>>> study
> of
> > >>>> science and engineering more accessible for blind students.
> > >>>> If
>
> > > you
> > >>>> think that me as a undergraduate student may help on the
> project
> > >>>> I would be extremely glade to help in any ways that i can.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you again.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best regards.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Lucas Nadolskis.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Dániel Hajas via Blindmath
> > >>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Dear All,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Let me reintroduce myself, as probably the memory of my person
> > >>>>> faded on this list, since I have to confess, I haven*t been
> > >>>>> posting or regularly reading the conversation going on
> > >>>>> between
>
> > > the
> > >>>>> BlindMath list members, even though I am signed up for a
> > >>>>> number
> > > of
> > >>>>> years and always found the knowledge exchange of the list very
> > >>>>> valuable, supportive and a friendly place. Personal and work
> > >>>>> related pressure prevented me from participating in this
> > > community
> > >>>>> in the past year, year and a half, which I wish to change now
> > >>>>> and catch up with all the unread e-mails, contribute with
> > >>>>> anything I can to new topics. As part of my reintroduction,
> > >>>>> please also
> > > allow
> > >>>>> me to bring your attention to a new STEM accessibility
> service.
> > >>>>> You can read more about it as well, and if you wish to
> > > participate
> > >>>>> and help shaping the service with your feedback and insights,
> > >>>>> please let the developer team or myself know about it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Now to the point:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I am Daniel Hajas, a blind theoretical physicist at the
> > > University
> > >>>>> of Sussex, England; and founder of Grapheel,
> (www.grapheel.com)
> > >>>>> which is a initiative to enhance accessibility of science
> > >>>>> education for people with special needs, using a set of online
> > >>>>> services, hardware products and public engagement activities,
> > >>>>> partnering with other organisations to make scientific content
> > >>>>> more accessible.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As part of the Grapheel initiative, me and a small team are
> > >>>>> designing an online, science community based image description
> > >>>>> service (called IRIS) to enhance the study experience of
> > >>>>> blind
>
> > > and
> > >>>>> visually impaired students in their education. Initially we
> > >>>>> would like to focus on STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering,
> > >>>>> Mathematics) education, but later expand to subjects at arts
> and
> > >>>>> humanities and support image descriptions of financial graphs,
> > >>>>> or wave form visualisations in music editing.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> As we are at a very early stage of development, we would
> highly
> > >>>>> appreciate insights and feedback from the blind community
> > > familiar
> > >>>>> with accessibility considerations and state-of-the-art
> products
> > >>>>> and services. In particular, I would be grateful if members
> of
> > >>>>> this community could test and advise us on how to improve the
> > >>>>> service (please read more about it below). We have a feature
> > >>>>> incomplete test version, which we run in closed beta but
> before
> > >>>>> adding newer and new features we believe could be useful, we
> > >>>>> wish to start engaging with experienced, early adapter users,
> > >>>>> such
> > > that
> > >>>>> we can essentially build IRIS together from ground up.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The service is very similar to initiatives such as, Be my
> eyes,
> > >>>>> Bespecular, TapTapSee and other; however, our service aims to
> > >>>>> focus specifically on educational needs, with a pool of
> > >>>>> volunteering experts at given academic disciplines.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> How does IRIS work?
> > >>>>> * blind or visually impaired (BVI) students upload an image of
> > >>>>> scientific content, graphs, diagrams. * BVI students select a
> > >>>>> field of study (tag) e.g. physics, maths, chemistry etc. and a
> > >>>>> level of difficulty. * BVI students can ask a specific
> question
> > >>>>> they would like to know about the figure. * A pool of sighted
> > >>>>> volunteers with the necessary knowledge are assigned to groups
> > >>>>> of chosen disciplines based on their user settings of
> > >>>>> competency.
> > > *
> > >>>>> When an image request is sent by a BVI student, the figure
> > > appears
> > >>>>> in a queue that all volunteers of a specific discipline can
> view
> > >>>>> and describe. * If a request is accepted, the volunteer should
> > >>>>> give a description of the image based on provided
> > >>>>> guidelines.
> *
> > >>>>> The recipient of the description can either accept the
> response,
> > >>>>> or ask for further clarification.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What will I need to do as a tester?
> > >>>>> All you need to do is to log in whenever you can, upload a
> > >>>>> figure of scientific content, wait for the description and let
> > >>>>> us know what are the things you like, don*t like and suggest
> us
> > >>>>> new features you believe would be useful or could be done in a
> > >>>>> better way.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If you feel you would be happy and able to help us, please let
> > >>>>> us know by getting in touch on contact at grapheel.com. Then we
> > >>>>> will send you a URL to access the service, your username,
> > >>>>> password and a *How to get started* instruction.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best wishes,
> > >>>>> Daniel
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Blindmath mailing list
> > >>>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
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> > >
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>
> > >
> > >>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > >>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >
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> > >>>
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>
> > >
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> > >>
> > >>
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
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