[Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html

Fri Feb 17 23:38:44 UTC 2017

Someone who worked at my community college once tried to say that I
didn't need Braille because I could answer single-digit verbal
addition problems, i.e. 2+3.

On 2/17/17, Frankel, Lois E via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Not at all. The project was for the purpose of providing additional access
> modes, ideally to be used simultaneously if desired and both formats are
> available, not to take anything away. The original poster asked whether
> blind people could use MathPlayer and NVDA. The answer, from our results,
> appears to be Yes, at least under the circumstances studied. Saying that one
> mode is useful, and comparable in some respects, for some students, to
> another mode, is not at all to advocate that the other mode be denied to
> anyone. I am not aware of anyone advocating taking away braille.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Lois Frankel, Ph.D.
> Assessment Specialist IV, Assessment Development
> Educational Testing Service
> Mail Stop 14-N   Room N157  609-683-2985
> (All views expressed are my own, not necessarily those of Educational
> Testing Service)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Fjelsted [mailto:kfjelsted at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 6:24 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Frankel, Lois E <lfrankel at ETS.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
>
> This sounds like an approach by an organisation to attempt to justify not
> providing Braille. When ever we see this kind of nonsense we need to
> advocate eliminating print for Math problem solvimg for sighted users. How
> is it OK for  Blind people to be denied Braille!
>
>> On Feb 17, 2017, at 4:39 PM, Frankel, Lois E via Blindmath
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> In our grant project, we did test MathPlayer/NVDA with students with no
>> usable vision, and in our small sample of 8 students in secondary school,
>> they were able to solve the math problems we studied as accurately with
>> the MathPlayer/NVDA combination as they were with braille (though it
>> usually took longer). The paper describing the study is currently in the
>> page-proof stage and should be available shortly. I'll try to remember to
>> announce that here when it is. This was tested using math expressions of
>> our own making, so I can't comment on the example linked below.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Lois Frankel, Ph.D.
>> Assessment Specialist IV, Assessment Development Educational Testing
>> Service
>> Mail Stop 14-N   Room N157  609-683-2985
>> (All views expressed are my own, not necessarily those of Educational
>> Testing Service)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Lukasz Grabowski via Blindmath
>> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 12:03 PM
>> To: Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Łukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>; Blind Math list for those
>> interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] answer about LaTeX to html
>>
>> By the dafault it's the former, i.e. mathml. But it's very
>> configurable and if you prefer latex source as alt then probably it
>> can be done (although probably that's not much more helpful than
>> reading the source)
>>
>> NVDA with math player does (what it seems to me is) a reasonable job with
>> reading. You can try an example problem sheet here:
>> http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math103/Week14.te
>> x/S0.SSx2.html
>>
>> Having said that, I'm preparing materials for a visually impaired student
>> this year (legally bordercase blind, but with enough vision to read the
>> above link at about 300% zoom), so I don't have any real experience on
>> whether NVDA with mathplayer would work for a  maths student with no
>> vision at all.
>>
>> So if you are or know a blind maths student I would actually be very
>> interested to know whether a page as above is accessible via NVDA with
>> math player.
>>
>> Best,
>> Łukasz
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:45:37 -0200
>> Lucas Radaelli <lucasradaelli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Does latexml convert the output formulas to mathml or it puts the
>>> Latex source as alt in the images? if the former, what to use to read
>>> the formulas?
>>>
>>>> On 16/02/2017 13:22, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath wrote:
>>>> Hi Russell,
>>>>
>>>> I speak as someone who has tried different approaches to converting
>>>> latex to accessible html this year - pandoc is not good for this
>>>> purpuse, you should really use latexml if you have a tex file which
>>>> you need to convert to an accessible version.
>>>>
>>>> What pandoc is absolutely great for is writing new documents. Also
>>>> if I had a blind maths student which I needed to teach to write
>>>> mathematical documents, I would go with pandoc.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that pandoc very intelligently restricts what you can
>>>> do in a document, allowng to focus on the content, lowering the
>>>> numberof typos, etc.. But converting existing latex documents to
>>>> pandoc (or should I say "pandoc markdown" to be completely correct)
>>>> is a pain.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Łukasz
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 08:13:34 -0700
>>>> Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mathieu,
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming one could obtain a math or physics textbook in LaTeX
>>>>> format, would it be possible to run the textbook file through
>>>>> Pandoc and end up with a screen reader accessible version of the
>>>>> text? Or, would a lot of editing need to be done before using
>>>>> Pandoc, i.e. removing images, diagrams, etc.?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell Solowoniuk
>>>>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>>>>> MacEwan University
>>>>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>>>>> Edmonton, AB  T5J 4S2
>>>>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>>>>> T:  780-497-5826
>>>>> F:  780-497-4018
>>>>> macewan.ca
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mathieu Barbe via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-16
>>>>>>>> 3:20 AM >>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> pandoc is a good solution to convert math.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pandoc can convert markdown to html with mathml or mathjax.
>>>>> For instance :
>>>>>
>>>>> code markdown :
>>>>>
>>>>> % My title
>>>>> % My name
>>>>> % 16 Feb 2017
>>>>>
>>>>> # My equation and level 1
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a sum :
>>>>>
>>>>> $\sum_{i=0}^n i^2$
>>>>>
>>>>> End markdown code
>>>>>
>>>>> type in the command line :
>>>>>
>>>>> pandoc -s --mathml source.markdown -o out.html
>>>>>
>>>>> if you want mathjax instead of mathml, replace --mathml by
>>>>> --mathjax!
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have LaTeX source you also convert in html web page.
>>>>
>>>>> however, if tex source contains specials commands, there may be
>>>>> errors.
>>>>>
>>>>> command line :
>>>>>
>>>>> pandoc -s --mathml source.tex -o out.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The -s option ask to pandoc to generate header before your texte.
>>>>>
>>>>> ++ Mathieu
>>>>>
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