[BlindMath] BlindMath Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27

tolga karatas tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com
Fri Mar 31 12:23:06 UTC 2017 

Nicholas,

I would also suggest for you to learn braille if atall possible?
because braille will also allow you to understand lectures a lot more
however, there are pros and conns to this;

1. it takes longer to  produce lecture notes
2. it is time consuming to produce the braille lecture notes.
3. you need an embosser to produce your notes in to braille and they
are not cheap.
4. the final thing I will say to you is that  if you come across any
diagrams, etc, it will be difficult for you to print them off in an
accessible format.

Regards,

Tolga.


On 31/03/2017, blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
<blindmath-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (Nicholas J)
>    2. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (?ukasz Grabowski)
>    3. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (Nicholas J)
>    4. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (?ukasz Grabowski)
>    5. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (Doug and Molly Miron)
>    6. Re: Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less Visual
>       Math (Godfrey, Jonathan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:39:32 -0400
> From: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAJ-SAGYce+uWp7V87rGibJ=s26199c0rricSvZPoNnaRurKMdg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hello,
>
> Thank you for the response about the Sensational Blackboard and convention.
> Is math homework done with similar technology? If textbooks are to be
> translated to braille, I was told before that the braille book could take
> up multiple shelves of a bookshelf since it would be so big. Is that still
> true at the present?
>
> Thank you,
> Nicholas
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to go
>> back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view the
>> board
>> and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have used have still
>> left me not able to see what was happening in most of my classes before
>> and
>> zoomtext made things slower for me because of so much magnification.
>> Right
>> now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure
>> what to do for things like the boards in classes, writing, and things
>> like
>> that. I don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write
>> big
>> and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly
>> I
>> wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing things in
>> braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to go. I thought it
>> might
>> take a lot of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in
>> some situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern
>> correctly the more complicated they got). I have been reading through all
>> the posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other kinds of
>> technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are best for the
>> transition of doing everything visually to doing things less visually. My
>> vision has always stayed the same, but the field I am working in is
>> statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation and
>> everything.
>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more electronically
>> and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and Kurzweil.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 23:00:59 +0100
> From: ?ukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <20170330230059.4cd861fa at brutus.lancaster.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Nicholas, about textbooks: you probably know this, but just in case: if
> you have a refreshable Braille display then  books which are  in mathml
> can be (in principle) read on such a braille display using automatic
> transcription. However I don't own a braille display so I don't know
> what is the quality of transcription.
>
> However, the piece of software which does the transcription, called
> mathplayer (which works for example with nvda), is able  also to read
> mathml aloud - this I have checked, and it does a fairly reasonable
> job, at least with simple maths, so presumably Braille transcription
> is also not too bad.
>
> You can see an example of lecture notes in mathml for a  basic
> statistics course at my institution here:
> http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/staff/grabows1/accessible/math104/Math104.tex/index.html
>
> (please note that all figures and most of the tables were removed from
> those lecture notes, so some parts might be confusing (the tables
> which were not removed are likely not very accessible solely with a
> screen reader - sorry!). If you
> want to test mathplayer, then more involved mathematical formulas start
> to appear in chapter 2)
>
> Best,
> ?ukasz
>
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 17:39:32 -0400
> Nicholas J via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Thank you for the response about the Sensational Blackboard and
>> convention. Is math homework done with similar technology? If
>> textbooks are to be translated to braille, I was told before that the
>> braille book could take up multiple shelves of a bookshelf since it
>> would be so big. Is that still true at the present?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nicholas
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want
>> > to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to
>> > view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I
>> > have used have still left me not able to see what was happening in
>> > most of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me
>> > because of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to
>> > using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for
>> > things like the boards in classes, writing, and things like that. I
>> > don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write big
>> > and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how
>> > quickly I wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at
>> > doing things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to
>> > go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I still
>> > think it may be helpful in some situations (maybe graphics which I
>> > could almost never discern correctly the more complicated they
>> > got). I have been reading through all the posts here about latex
>> > and having Jaws read them and other kinds of technologies, but I am
>> > not sure what kinds of technology are best for the transition of
>> > doing everything visually to doing things less visually. My vision
>> > has always stayed the same, but the field I am working in is
>> > statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation and
>> > everything. Main Question: What technology and how can I do math
>> > more electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>> > and Kurzweil.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Nicholas
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/graboluk%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:01:14 -0400
> From: Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAJ-SAGak=99dAxTh6f1N9COpc+Lo-PR8BUwSJo13go0cpEO=fw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Thank you for the email about the textbooks ?ukasz. Many of the braille
> displays I have seen only show one line of a book or text. Are there any
> that show multiple lines? If the textbook is a pdf, will the screen reader
> be able to read the math notation? If the math notation is not in mathml,
> is it easy to make it in mathml?
>
> Thank you,
> Nicholas
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to go
>> back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view the
>> board
>> and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have used have still
>> left me not able to see what was happening in most of my classes before
>> and
>> zoomtext made things slower for me because of so much magnification.
>> Right
>> now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure
>> what to do for things like the boards in classes, writing, and things
>> like
>> that. I don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write
>> big
>> and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly
>> I
>> wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing things in
>> braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to go. I thought it
>> might
>> take a lot of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in
>> some situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern
>> correctly the more complicated they got). I have been reading through all
>> the posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other kinds of
>> technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are best for the
>> transition of doing everything visually to doing things less visually. My
>> vision has always stayed the same, but the field I am working in is
>> statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation and
>> everything.
>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more electronically
>> and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and Kurzweil.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 00:13:22 +0100
> From: ?ukasz Grabowski <graboluk at gmail.com>
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <20170331001322.01c004de at brutus.lancaster.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I don't know about Braille displays; as for other issues: generally
> mathematical notation can't be read by a screen reader from a pdf file
> (there is not enough information embedded in the pdf - basically just
> the symbols and their visual placement)
>
> If you have access to latex source then producing mathml is reasonably
> easy, provided that the source is "well structured".
>
> Best,
> ?ukasz
>
>
> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 19:01:14 -0400
> Nicholas J via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the email about the textbooks ?ukasz. Many of the
>> braille displays I have seen only show one line of a book or text.
>> Are there any that show multiple lines? If the textbook is a pdf,
>> will the screen reader be able to read the math notation? If the math
>> notation is not in mathml, is it easy to make it in mathml?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nicholas
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want
>> > to go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to
>> > view the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I
>> > have used have still left me not able to see what was happening in
>> > most of my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me
>> > because of so much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to
>> > using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure what to do for
>> > things like the boards in classes, writing, and things like that. I
>> > don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write big
>> > and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how
>> > quickly I wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at
>> > doing things in braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to
>> > go. I thought it might take a lot of time also to learn it. I still
>> > think it may be helpful in some situations (maybe graphics which I
>> > could almost never discern correctly the more complicated they
>> > got). I have been reading through all the posts here about latex
>> > and having Jaws read them and other kinds of technologies, but I am
>> > not sure what kinds of technology are best for the transition of
>> > doing everything visually to doing things less visually. My vision
>> > has always stayed the same, but the field I am working in is
>> > statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation and
>> > everything. Main Question: What technology and how can I do math
>> > more electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille,
>> > and Kurzweil.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> >
>> > Nicholas
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/graboluk%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 21:17:49 -0500
> From: "Doug and Molly Miron" <mndmrn at hbci.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID: <B5BEF3E8DB874AC488B2B2A0CE46AA1F at DESKTOPBGKNB8Q>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Good day Nicholas,
>
> I've been learning to deal with this issue myself since I went from
> hard-of-seeing to totally useless sight about two years ago.  You are
> correct that hard copy braille books take a lot of space.  There are
> multi-line braille displays, see the American Printing House for the Blind
> and National Federation for the Blind to see what they have to offer.  I
> personally am using LaTeX in Word with MathType and MathPlayer to render
> research papers into readable form.  There are allegedly converters from
> LaTeX to MathML, but, so far, I haven't been able to make one work.  .pdf
> files are useless for equations and figures.  Some people on this list have
>
> been able to get the LaTeX files for books from the authors and that has
> apparently been useful.  APHB has been working on a tactile graphics display
>
> which may be available later this year.
>
> If you are located in the U.D. you probably have a State Services for the
> Blind available.  Getting them or a national source to braille your books is
>
> probably the most reliable route.  There are other blind students, which I
> am not, on this list who can tell you more about this process.  High tech is
>
> almost there, but not quite yet.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas J via BlindMath
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Nicholas J
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
> Visual Math
>
> Thank you for the email about the textbooks ?ukasz. Many of the braille
> displays I have seen only show one line of a book or text. Are there any
> that show multiple lines? If the textbook is a pdf, will the screen reader
> be able to read the math notation? If the math notation is not in mathml,
> is it easy to make it in mathml?
>
> Thank you,
> Nicholas
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to go
>> back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view the
>> board
>> and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have used have still
>> left me not able to see what was happening in most of my classes before
>> and
>> zoomtext made things slower for me because of so much magnification.
>> Right
>> now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the computer, but I am not sure
>> what to do for things like the boards in classes, writing, and things
>> like
>> that. I don?t write notes because I am slow at it since I have to write
>> big
>> and I usually still can?t understand what I wrote because of how quickly
>> I
>> wrote it and how unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing things in
>> braille, but am not sure if that is the best way to go. I thought it
>> might
>> take a lot of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in
>> some situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern
>> correctly the more complicated they got). I have been reading through all
>> the posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other kinds of
>> technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are best for the
>> transition of doing everything visually to doing things less visually. My
>> vision has always stayed the same, but the field I am working in is
>> statistics and it gets very small and specific for notation and
>> everything.
>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more electronically
>> and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and Kurzweil.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2017 02:48:25 +0000
> From: "Godfrey, Jonathan" <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to
> 	Less Visual Math
> Message-ID:
> 	<D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9E20DF4704 at tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Doug,
>
> The following line is what would be put on a command line to generate html
> with suitably rendered math content.
>    htlatex <file>.tex "xhtml,2,next,mathjax"
> I put it into a batch file so that I don't have to type it out over and over
> again though.
> You will need to put the right filename in where the <file> is in there.
> Change the 2 to 1 if you want a single file version. I want chapters split
> out with suitable hyperlinks added automatically.
>
> This is available in standard miktex2.9
>
> Jonathan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug and
> Molly Miron via BlindMath
> Sent: Friday, 31 March 2017 3:18 p.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Doug and Molly Miron
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
> Visual Math
>
> Good day Nicholas,
>
> I've been learning to deal with this issue myself since I went from
> hard-of-seeing to totally useless sight about two years ago.  You are
> correct that hard copy braille books take a lot of space.  There are
> multi-line braille displays, see the American Printing House for the Blind
> and National Federation for the Blind to see what they have to offer.  I
> personally am using LaTeX in Word with MathType and MathPlayer to render
> research papers into readable form.  There are allegedly converters from
> LaTeX to MathML, but, so far, I haven't been able to make one work.  .pdf
> files are useless for equations and figures.  Some people on this list have
> been able to get the LaTeX files for books from the authors and that has
> apparently been useful.  APHB has been working on a tactile graphics display
> which may be available later this year.
>
> If you are located in the U.D. you probably have a State Services for the
> Blind available.  Getting them or a national source to braille your books is
> probably the most reliable route.  There are other blind students, which I
> am not, on this list who can tell you more about this process.  High tech is
> almost there, but not quite yet.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicholas J via BlindMath
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 6:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Nicholas J
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Transitioning from Completely Visual Math to Less
> Visual Math
>
> Thank you for the email about the textbooks ?ukasz. Many of the braille
> displays I have seen only show one line of a book or text. Are there any
> that show multiple lines? If the textbook is a pdf, will the screen reader
> be able to read the math notation? If the math notation is not in mathml, is
> it easy to make it in mathml?
>
> Thank you,
> Nicholas
>
> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 11:21 PM, Nicholas J <314nick15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I?m considering doing a Master?s in statistics, but I do not want to
>> go back to the technology that I used before. I used a cctv to view
>> the board and zoomtext as a screen magnifier. All the cctvs I have
>> used have still left me not able to see what was happening in most of
>> my classes before and zoomtext made things slower for me because of so
>> much magnification. Right now I am transitioning to using Jaws for the
>> computer, but I am not sure what to do for things like the boards in
>> classes, writing, and things like that. I don?t write notes because I
>> am slow at it since I have to write big and I usually still can?t
>> understand what I wrote because of how quickly I wrote it and how
>> unreadable it is. I have been looking at doing things in braille, but
>> am not sure if that is the best way to go. I thought it might take a
>> lot of time also to learn it. I still think it may be helpful in some
>> situations (maybe graphics which I could almost never discern
>> correctly the more complicated they got). I have been reading through
>> all the posts here about latex and having Jaws read them and other
>> kinds of technologies, but I am not sure what kinds of technology are
>> best for the transition of doing everything visually to doing things
>> less visually. My vision has always stayed the same, but the field I
>> am working in is statistics and it gets very small and specific for
>> notation and everything.
>> Main Question: What technology and how can I do math more
>> electronically and less visually? I am learning Jaws, braille, and
>> Kurzweil.
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Nicholas
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> BlindMath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindMath mailing list
> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27
> ******************************************
>

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