[BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs

Fri Apr 6 23:14:59 UTC 2018

You are correct. I do prefer to listen. However, I still believe that Braille is very important and I'm glad that I know it. There are some things like math and science that I need to be able to read. And if I am writing something long, I will write using a combination of braille and speech. Sometimes I like to get what I have written and read it to myself out loud, and I cannot do that without braille. I actually want to read it to myself instead of having something else read it to me. I can look for grammar and typos a lot easier. Also, if I am doing a speech or a presentation, my notes need to be in braille. I would say that I use both for different purposes and a lot of times I use a mixture of speech and braille. If something is really hard for me to understand, I might understand it better if I read and listen at the same time. Some math equations we're very hard for me to read and I had to have someone repeat the equation to me as I read it at the same time. I couldn't read the braille, that was not the problem. These equations were just so complicated. It is pretty annoying that my phone does not have very good braille support. When I write an email on my phone as I am doing now, it can be harder. The braille screen input on my phone is also hard for me to use. However, if I were reading a novel or even a training manual, I would prefer to listen to it. When I am cooking, I prefer to listen to the recipe and follow the steps as I hear what to do. If I am socializing with someone, I would prefer to talk to them instead of write to them.

Sabra Ewing

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:51 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello Sabra,
> 
> I completely understand what you are talking about. I also bet that you
> tend not to read Braille if you don’t need to, you like to talk to someone
> about your ideas to work them out in your head, and you listen to books
> rather than reading them in Braille.
> 
> From my research, the best explanation is learning modalities. Fleming
> (2014) presents a very good summery of learning modalities:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http://vark-learn.com/introduction-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/
> <https://web.archive.org/web/20150314235648/http:/vark-learn.com/introduction-to-vark/the-vark-modalities/>
> 
> 
> 
> Much of our educational system is completely visual, but blind children are
> uniquely taught to effectively use 2 modalities, touch and sound, so they
> understand that they are not stupid, they learn better through listening,
> rather than reading Braille (or the other way around). One of my arguments
> supporting cross-sensory representations is that one of the biggest reasons
> for the massive drop in math scores in the U.S. is that sighted children
> are being born with a dominant modality other than visual. They are only
> taught the visual modality, so they think they are bad at math and this
> reflects in their test scores. One of my objectives is to make an argument
> for teaching cross-sensory literacy in school. My hypothesis is that if
> students are able to learn in their primary modality, they will have at
> least a 15% increase in their grades throughout school. My MRP aims to
> perform a study quantifying the differences between giving people a single
> sensory representation vs a cross-sensory representation. There is so much
> evidence that people learn better when presented with multiple modalities,
> that I am very confident that the cross-sensory representation is going to
> be much more effective.
> 
> 
> Our goal now is to figure out what representations are the most effective.
> We just submitted a paper to the International Conference of Auditory
> Display (ICAD) on the types of maps used in Audio Games:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TKBv24qCeed6DeHrMrdLLByyjemLP2Dw/view?usp=sharing
> 
> We’re arguing that Audio games can inform infographic and mapping auditory
> design.
> 
> 
> 
> For tactile, we also submitted an abstract to an aesthetics conference that
> points to several studies showing that 3D tactile representations are
> significantly more effective than 2D representations.
> 
> 
> 
> Our goal is to create a systematic way of creating cross-sensory
> representations with the eventual goal of making a platform for people to
> create a representation in one modality and have it translated into other
> modalities. Current tools that do this successful translation between
> modalities are Braille translation programs like DBT. We hope to create the
> same kind of tool for pictographic representations.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
> 
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 9:48 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
>> I basically wanted to use my microphones for making maps, but I can't do
>> everything I want. I want to be able to pipe a three-dimensional arrow into
>> my Maps so that I don't have to narrate anything. When I turn, the aero
>> will just change. I also want some sort of scaling mechanism so that I can
>> listen to a map in a shorter time, but still get the entire thing.
>> Sometimes it works to pause the recording and then record every so often as
>> you get closer to an intersection for example, so it seems like you got to
>> the intersection and 30 seconds when it may have taken two or three
>> minutes, but I want something more uniform. Another thing for your sensory
>> research is that you need to have different categories. You need to have
>> people who were born blind and people who became blind later in life. I was
>> born with light perception, but medically, I am considered totally blind.
>> It seems like to me that only people who are born blind have this
>> experience of it sound turning into shape. This happened to me
>> automatically. And sound turn into shape for blind people in a logical way
>> or no one would be able to create software that replicates it. But from my
>> observations, people who were not born blind, even if they were cited for
>> short time, do not experience this. For example, my boyfriend was partially
>> blind for around one or two years and then he became totally blind, but he
>> does not experience this. However, even if people who are totally blind
>> experience this automatically, I wonder if people who have been blind for a
>> long time like my boyfriend can easily have their brain trained to this
>> method. I have gone through all sorts of training to learn to read tactile
>> images that has been largely ineffective. I wonder if maybe I will never be
>> able to read them in the same way that sighted people will not be able to
>> read audio images and maps. I also wonder how the brain of a deaf blind
>> person works. It has been scientifically proven that blind people process
>> sound through the visual cortex although I don't think sighted people
>> really know what that means, so how did the brains of death blind people
>> process spatial information? I was also reading articles about sided deaf
>> people that they process vision through the auditory cortex. I wonder what
>> that would be like. I am very sure that I processed sound through the
>> visual cortex although I have not really had a brain scan. I can read very
>> simple tactile images, but with the more complicated ones, it is just a
>> jumble of lines that do not make sense to me. I got through calculus barely
>> being able to read the graphs. I barely passed, and I did many things
>> algebraically. I could've gotten so much more out of it if I had been able
>> to read those graphs though. Growing up, sighted therapists told me that I
>> had spatial deficits I was just born with and that I would have to except
>> these limitations. Blindness has never been disabling to me. It has always
>> been an asset to me because The way I process a lot of information has been
>> right for me and consistent with the way I am meant to be based on my
>> identity. However, The way I process spatial information has always been
>> disabling to me. I thought for a long time that I would never be able to
>> process this information. I would never be able to travel as effectively as
>> other people because I could not read a map or understand where I was, I
>> would never be able to understand chemistry because of the electrons and
>> the energy levels, I would never be able to understand biology because the
>> way we evolved from a sponge into human is actually very spatial, I would
>> have limited access to math, and I would have trouble with basic things
>> like fitting the greatest amount of dishes into the dishwasher. My own
>> parents did not even understand what it meant. My mom could never
>> understand why always went to the kitchen trashcan the same way. She said I
>> should go there a different way depending on where I was in the kitchen and
>> I could never understand it.Now I see that even this could have been an
>> asset instead of a disabling condition if it had been treated
>> appropriately. I don't even think this condition has a name, but I think it
>> should be treated differently than blindness. No one has a name for it. I
>> have never been able to get official documentation for it. At first growing
>> up, I did not even know I had it. I have tried to explain it to professors,
>> but I don't know how. I know that other people's brains work differently
>> because I observed them more and more as I got older and I learned about
>> the discrepancies concerning information they could process that I could
>> not. However, I cannot explain what it is like. I cannot think of any
>> simulation that would explain it either. I think that if I had been able to
>> communicate what it was like to some professors, they would have figured
>> out what to do to help me and I could have done well in math. A lot of my
>> professors were pretty smart and they did want to help. I wish this
>> condition had a name and that there were mainstream alternative techniques
>> for it. Yes, you can work around it. For example, you can use algebra to
>> understand something if you can't read a graph, but alternative techniques
>> mean that you do the same thing as other people, just in an alternative
>> way. So what I mean is that I want to process spatial information just like
>> other people, but in an alternative way, and I know I can. I know now that
>> the spatial part of my brain is not broken like those therapists said it
>> was. If that part truly were broken, I would not be able to read a map or
>> graph no matter what form it came in. I tried to explain what it was like
>> to one professor, and she said that she understood and it is like not
>> knowing which way up is. That is not what it is like though. Summa side of
>> people have it too, but I believe that people born blind are getting this
>> spatial thing in disproportionate numbers. I do not believe it is because
>> they need visual information, they were overprotected, or it was genetic. I
>> believe that we develop these spatial difficulties because we do not
>> receive spatial information and the training to interpret it in an
>> accessible format. I don't know if it is too late for me now. Even if we
>> develop alternative techniques for this, I don't know if they can help me
>> now or if I would have had to start using them as a baby for them to be
>> effective. I sometimes play this binaural game called A Blind Legend. I can
>> walk around in the game and do lots of things in it that were very hard for
>> me when I was playing text  adventures.
>> 
>> Sabra Ewing
>> 
>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:11 PM, Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There is a program called math tracks that does it. You put in equations
>> and it makes a graph. There is also an app called voice and a computer
>> program called seeing with sound that can translate any picture into sound.
>> Math tracks is a bit better for grass though because you can get
>> information on. Some things. The problem I had in school though was that no
>> one else knew how to use it to create audio graphs so I was just given
>> tactile graphs that I could not read. I was able to understand two
>> dimensional graphs with this set up. But what that means is that I
>> understand them exactly the shape they are so you still cannot get a
>> three-dimensional object that is a two dimensional picture and have me
>> listen to it and understand it. I have been able to make recordings of
>> three-dimensional objects with binaural microphones.
>>> 
>>> Sabra Ewing
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Donald Winiecki via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sabra, what software have you used to convert two-dimensional graphs to
>>>> sound?
>>>> 
>>>> _don
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <
>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> If you are good with sound editing, I would recommend making 3-D audio
>>>>> recordings of the graphs. There are programs that can import two
>>>>> dimensional pictures and convert them into sound, but maybe you could
>>>>> convert one of these programs to work for three-dimensional items or
>> find a
>>>>> method to do that on your own. You cannot get a three dimensional graph
>>>>> that is actually two dimensional and import it into one of these
>> programs
>>>>> though because it will not work. For example, I cube or just be like a
>>>>> bunch of squares, dotted lines, and diamonds. You would need to use
>>>>> binaural sound and actually make it be three-dimensional. How you
>> would do
>>>>> this, I don't know, but audio really is your best bet. You will be
>> able to
>>>>> understand graphs with a Percision that you will not be able to with a
>> 3-D
>>>>> printer. You will be able to experience graphs as they move around and
>>>>> rotate and change. If you cannot get this method to work, the only
>> other
>>>>> thing I can suggest is to have a reader or assistant look at the
>> graphs and
>>>>> reproduce them with modeling clay and braille labels. Depending on how
>>>>> invested you are, 3-D printers are getting more affordable. I think
>> you can
>>>>> get one for between 500 and $1000. If I were doing this, I would want a
>>>>> three-dimensional model I could I feel as well as a three-dimensional
>> audio
>>>>> version so that I could listen and feel at the same time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sabra Ewing
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Michael Link via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is exactly my trouble. What an interesting idea.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 4:21 AM, Robin Williams via BlindMath <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have a friend who has experimented in such matters, particularly
>>>>> making shapes encountered in topology. The main problem with 3D
>> printing
>>>>> appears to be the expense, as one tends to need larger objects
>> depending on
>>>>> the level of detail. It should be possible to produce something
>> relatively
>>>>> cheaply for standard surfaces, though.
>>>>>>> There are R packages available that can readily produce the files
>>>>> needed for 3D printing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I agree this is worthy of further investigation. Attempting to
>>>>> understand contour plots was certainly one of the most difficult
>> problems I
>>>>> encountered in my undergraduate and postgraduate work.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bests,
>>>>>>> Robin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
>>>>>>> Sent: 05 April 2018 03:29
>>>>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>>>>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd love to see some more done on creating such graphs using a 3d
>>>>> printer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't yet had a chance to exercise this interest to date, but
>>>>> creating 3d printer ready image files for statistical graphs is on my
>> to-do
>>>>> list.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Michael Link via BlindMath
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2018 2:10 p.m.
>>>>>>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Cc: Michael Link <michaelllink1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: [BlindMath] 3 Dimensional Graphs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi All!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I’m an undergraduate mathematics student who is struggling with
>>>>> figuring out the best assistive tech to use for understanding 3
>> Dimensional
>>>>> graphs.  Do any of you recommend certain programs or devices for
>> graphs in
>>>>> three dimensions?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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