[BlindMath] Godel Escher Bach

Tue Apr 17 18:56:36 UTC 2018

If the book is relatively recent and happened to be written in LaTeX, at least you might be able to obtain the source files from the authors or publisher. Some publishers may be able to provide HTML with MathML, but it very much depends on how the book was produced.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Amanda Lacy
> via BlindMath
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 2:39 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Godel Escher Bach
>
> Hi Ken, I was at CSUN and I remember the amazing displays. I really want one.
>
> But some of you have been saying "it's getting better" for the past ten years.
> Meanwhile, my situation is exactly the same as it was ten years ago.
> I can't read math books.
> I can't read CS books which rely heavily on math.
> Blindness is a trivial problem compared to this one.
>
> On 4/17/18, Ken Perry via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > I want to add the other part to this.  There are several graphics
> > displays on the way that will help with this.  ON the display I
> > currently have on my desk I can blow up images and read the actual
> > text and words rather than see it in braille as a 100% blind person.
> > So when I find something I can't read by OCR or braille or screen
> > reader.  I throw it at the Graphiti and it shows up as an image that I
> > can feel.  These displays are not out yet but it will change the way
> > we deal with Stem once they come out.  I was just playing with it and
> > looking at allt he emogi's and that was fun but looking at math
> > problems and instant tactile representations of Microscope slides is
> > amazing.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Sina
> > Bahram via BlindMath
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 2:01 PM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Sina Bahram <sina at sinabahram.com>
> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Godel Escher Bach
> >
> > Having done a lot of work in this space, please allow me to share some
> > thoughts.
> >
> > With mathematics in textbooks, the problem is rather complex, as you
> > may or may not know. MathML is one possibility, but rarely do
> > publishers offer this (though that pipeline is getting much better).
> > That means that often times the mathematics is imbedded into the books
> > as picture files, which is completely useless for accessibility
> > purposes. That, sadly, is one of the better cases, because the worst
> > case is when the book needs to be physically scanned instead of
> > electronically provided, at which point one is at the mercy of OCR and
> > other suboptimal technologies for converting visual representations of
> > mathematics into digitally accessible semantic representations
> > therein.
> >
> > I and many other people are working on all of these problems, and the
> > Diagram Center, part of Benetech who runs Bookshare, are some of the
> > hardest working and most knowledgeable people in the space, but it
> > takes a lot of time to transform entire industries whose digital
> > practices last evolved in the 90's and 00's.
> >
> > Various research projects around the world involve using computer
> > vision and machine learning to recognize mathematics and subsequently
> > transforming that into accessible formats. Still other efforts involve
> > educating publishers about including accessible information within
> > their digital formats and providing reference implementations of HTML5
> > and other templates to facilitate access for all audiences, not just
> > those who are vision-impaired.
> >
> > None of the above removes the frustration of not having immediate
> > access to a book like one's peers, but I can confidently say that
> > things are slowly getting a lot better.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Sina
> >
> > President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> > Twitter: @SinaBahram
> > Company Website:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
> >
> ac.bz&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4
> 929
> >
> a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C63659587193055
> 2813&sd
> > ata=6VG5izlsqE41FhNMUh577YtJptylY3OhU9rstFTSLx4%3D&reserved=0
> > Personal Website:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.s
> >
> inabahram.com&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce
> 3090
> >
> 8d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595
> 8719305
> >
> 52813&sdata=bLJAgtUl3poyN7T%2FvOM2607MZtRQ9wuTMYWGZXbyuAM%3D
> &reserved=
> > 0
> > Blog:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.
> >
> SinaBahram.com&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1c
> e309
> >
> 08d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C63659
> 5871930
> >
> 552813&sdata=vfkWqfaldJ90EAgDUHlLViTNXB7cgufDhieXFM%2FAbTI%3D&rese
> rved
> > =0
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sabra Ewing <sabra1023 at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 1:43 PM
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Sina Bahram <sina at sinabahram.com>
> > Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Godel Escher Bach
> >
> > They were not fantastic about it with me. Every time I try to get a
> > math textbook from them, it was not accessible. The equations we're
> > not exactly removed, but it is hard to describe what they are like.
> > Amanda was there though. She can tell you what they were like. Book share
> never fixed it.
> >
> > Sabra Ewing
> >
> >> On Apr 17, 2018, at 11:32 AM, Sina Bahram via BlindMath
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> If you let bookshare know through the form on their website, they are
> >> fantastic about rescanning/correcting the book.
> >>
> >> President, Prime Access Consulting, Inc.
> >> Twitter: @SinaBahram
> >> Company Website:
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >>
> pac.bz&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a
> 49
> >>
> 29a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930
> 552813
> >> &sdata=6VG5izlsqE41FhNMUh577YtJptylY3OhU9rstFTSLx4%3D&reserved=0
> >> Personal Website:
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >>
> sinabahram.com&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1c
> e30
> >>
> 908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C6365
> 958719
> >>
> 30552813&sdata=bLJAgtUl3poyN7T%2FvOM2607MZtRQ9wuTMYWGZXbyuAM%
> 3D&reser
> >> ved=0
> >> Blog:
> >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog
> >>
> .SinaBahram.com&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1c
> e3
> >>
> 0908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636
> 595871
> >>
> 930562818&sdata=yPvFAl2MHZP0rEv8Uf5JccqH6kqYXVzXIBkAMxH8Pmc%3D&re
> serv
> >> ed=0
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Amanda
> >> Lacy via BlindMath
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 1:12 PM
> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> >> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: [BlindMath] Godel Escher Bach
> >>
> >> Does anyone know where to get an accessible version of this book?
> >>
> >> I was enjoying it until around the chapter on recursion. At that
> >> point the text version I found contained gibberish where the theorems
> >> should be.
> >> The Bookshare version was just as useless; it left them out altogether.
> >> How'd you like to read, "...and when you combine theorem removed with
> >> theorem removed..."
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BlindMath mailing list
> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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> >>
> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath_nfbnet.org&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwh
> >>
> ite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fa
> e92
> >>
> f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&sdata=TBAvZSBB1Xre0L
> MxBmg
> >> NvpWACLPt35sghHvwV2sqqFY%3D&reserved=0
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> BlindMath:
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> >>
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> >>
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> c%7
> >>
> C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&s
> data=
> >> FQxiM9Tu2JBeiU38BOKSL%2BfqrGxF%2B6WDXuosKFCabTc%3D&reserved=0
> >> am.com
> >> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >> blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-
> home&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.o
> >>
> rg%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> d9e9
> >>
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> dtgNkXK
> >> CGLfltycjWtW4%2Fc%3D&reserved=0>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BlindMath mailing list
> >> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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> >>
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> >>
> ite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fa
> e92
> >>
> f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&sdata=TBAvZSBB1Xre0L
> MxBmg
> >> NvpWACLPt35sghHvwV2sqqFY%3D&reserved=0
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > BlindMath:
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> a&
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> data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8
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> data=
> >> 6suyG2O4IY4OzL7VNgK%2B1dm9kkpkrE1s4jWsh1xwlRE%3D&reserved=0
> >> il.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> >> blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-
> home&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.o
> >>
> rg%7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> d9e9
> >>
> b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&sdata=1iMZXR%2BT4je0560NWE9Bx
> dtgNkXK
> >> CGLfltycjWtW4%2Fc%3D&reserved=0>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindMath mailing list
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> 92f37
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> e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&sdata=TBAvZSBB1Xre0LMx
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> 18&sdat
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> > m
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.b
> > lindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-
> home&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org
> >
> %7C5733341f51e34d1ce30908d5a4929a8c%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9
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> NkXKCGLf
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BlindMath mailing list
> > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
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> e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636595871930562818&sdata=TBAvZSBB1Xre0LMx
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> &sdata=
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