[BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
kperry at blinksoft.com
kperry at blinksoft.com
Sun Dec 2 17:58:43 UTC 2018
Oh I am old to my algebra class in high school had four function calculators to speed up the silly stuff but my math teacher wouldn't let us use them on tests. To make matters worse he taught us to use slide rules and would let us use those on a test.
ken
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Vincent Martin via BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 6:33 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: vincentfmartin2020 at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
I'm an old fart, so I took all my initial Math classes before I discovered I had retinitis pigmentosa. My high school did not allow or anyone to use any form of calculator in high school, if everyone did not own one. I learned to use scientific notation to use in my high school Math, Chemistry and Physic classes. It came in handy in my freshman year at Georgia tech in 1982-1983 when my calculator died in the middle of a major Chemistry exam. I was able to do the calculations by hand using scientific notation.
I was working as a research scientist in the mid 2000's when I noticed all the messages on the blind math list about students having to use the program SPSS in their Research Methods or introductory Statistics classes. Although I was totally blind then, I immediately cringed as I thought about how "visual" Statistics can be and that you have to make determinations and inferences sometimes on your observations of what the data seems to be telling you.
I had a Tiber embosser at work and a research assistant that could create tactile graphs ridiculously quick when I was doing data analysis , but immediately realized how "screwed" most blind students would be.
I now advocate that blind students get a T-84 and learn to use the graphics accelerator produced by SAS and they will have a good chance of being successful without as much aid as was needed in the past. The assistance of a good TVI, and I mean a good one can help facilitate this as the chances of the Math teacher being adept enough to assist does not exude confidence to me.
If I end up back at the Veteran's administration as a principal investigator in the near future, I intend to continue my research with sonified and haptic graphs to teach spatial concepts and data comprehension.
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of gary-melconian via BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 1:40 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: gary-melconian <gmelconian619 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Same here, don’t get why math can be hard for sighted people.where you and I had to go through many challenges to accomplish the same things as my sighted counterparts in geometry, trig and calculus I will be wanting to grab one of these as I will have nephews and nieces that I will eventually end up tutoring in math and may end up picking one up to gain more knowledge about the aph t84 talking calculator .
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ken Perry via BlindMath
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 9:27 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: kperry at blinksoft.com
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
I was very privileged to be involved in this project. When I took math quite a wile ago the TI-84 was used even then. . What shocks me is how many of those sighted folks didn't pass their math class even though they had the TI-84. I was 100% blind and had to do everything in my head or with a reader and writer and I was able to ace the classes. What the heck were they doing? It is just a tribute to the fact that these tools are great. They speed up our work and make math classes more equal between blind and sighted folks. With that said though. If you don't have a mind for it or you don't study and pay attention it doesn't matter if you have the tools or not. I am glad though that we that we now have the tools and in the near future better tools are coming.
ken
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of gary-melconian via BlindMath
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2018 12:12 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: gary-melconian <gmelconian619 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Ken its good to know about all this.i did not have these tools when I was doing math back in the olden days. Its great that the blind now have tools like this to be able to get through high math cources like trig, and calculis.
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ken Perry via BlindMath
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 5:13 PM
To: 'Kendra Schaber' <redwing731 at gmail.com>; 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: kperry at blinksoft.com
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Ok I think you miss understood my answer. You said they only said TI-83 so I was saying the TI-84 is no different. Just so you know because judging by your answer you didn’t, I am one of the project leaders on the Orion TI-84 Plus and I work at APH. Now to clear up the other thing. The Orion TI-84 is exactly the TI-84 so to me it is not even a near same calculator it is the same calculator. It would be like you saying windows 10 is not windows 10 because Jaws or NVDA is giving you the access. The hardware on top of the TI-84 is a computer that gives you access to the TI-84. Now if you start talking about the TI-84 C and or TI-84 CE then your in a slightly different calculator because they have different upgraded firmware, colors, and faster processors. With that said though when it comes to using them in schools the Orion TI-84 plus and all the TI-84 family work exactly the same. With the one difference that has already been mentioned. That is the graphical MathPrint mode is not supported by the Orion screen reader. Again that is like saying a graphic PDF is not supported by a screen reader. The graphic PDF can be read it just takes you interacting with it in a different way. In the same way the MathPrint mode is not needed because you can do everything else in classic mode just a slight bit different.
Ken
From: Kendra Schaber <redwing731 at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 7:44 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: kperry at blinksoft.com
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Hi Ken!
Yes, they are almost the same calculator. But the one that the APH sells offers the ability to have it talk to you and also gives you audio graphics. This is why I was recamended the TI84 calculator. This is also why I’m trying to understand it’s capibilities because I don’t want to just get that calculator only to discover that it’s not going to work for me.
Thank you for taking the time to read this E Mail!
Blessed be!!!
Kendra Schaber,
Chemeketa Community College,
350 Org,
Citizen’s Climate Lobby,
National Federation of the Blind of Oregon,
Capitol Chapter,
Salem, Oregon.
Home email:
Redwing731 at gmail.com <mailto:Redwing731 at gmail.com>
Chemeketa Community College Email:
Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu <mailto:Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu>
Phone:
971-599-9991
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" Author Unknown.
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On Nov 29, 2018, at 03:32, Ken Perry via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> > wrote:
Kendra. When I went to your Colleges web site and checked on what calculators they recommend their students to use. It says that they recommend either a TI-83 or TI-84. . I found it on their math departments page at:
https://www.chemeketa.edu/programs-classes/program-finder/mathematics/
You have to expand the tab for which calculator then the calculator help tab. So the Orion TI-84 should be accepted as well.. I think maybe who ever you talked with didn't know they are pretty much the same calculator but the 83 is older.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Kendra Schaber via BlindMath
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:49 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Kendra Schaber <redwing731 at gmail.com <mailto:redwing731 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Hi all!
I also forgot to add that it was my educational team that suggested I look into the TI84 graphic calculator for school. In fact, when I was in my last meeting with my team, it was yesterday morning at Chemeketa Community College which is the school I'm starting my degree at.
Thank you for taking the time to read this Email!
Blessed be!!!
Kendra Schaber
Chemeketa Community College,
350 Org,
Citizen's Climate Lobby,
National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter, Salem, Oregon.
Home Email:
Redwing731 at gmail.com <mailto:Redwing731 at gmail.com> Chemeketa Community College Email:
Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu <mailto:Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu>
Phone:
971-599-9991
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear", Author unknown.
Sent from my iPhone SE.
Sent from my Gmail Email
Get Outlook<https://aka.ms/qtex0l> for iOS
________________________________
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> > on behalf of ronal.grigg via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> >
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 20:38
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Cc: ronal.grigg
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [Blind Math] Accessible Calculators:
Hello, I was told that I could not use my Orion TI 84 calculator in school.
On Nov 28, 2018, at 21:20, Ken Perry via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> >
wrote:
I didn't say they are not allowed in schools. They are not allowed on
standardized tests. In fact no calculator with a real keyboard (qwerty), no calculator with a speaker, no calculator with wireless, and no calculator that can not have its memory wiped before the test can be used in high stakes testing. There are other weird things but those are some of the big ones. You can get wavers if for example you have to use a laptop but then the test proctors might sit behind you and make sure your not pulling up the text book as you take your test. Just search for what is allowed on standard math tests in the uSA and you will find it online. I think your country also has similar standards.
ken
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Santiago
Velasquez via BlindMath
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 8:26 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Santiago Velasquez <zanty410 at gmail.com <mailto:zanty410 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessible Calculators:
HI Ken, thanks for your response.
I was not aware that software calculators were not allowed in schools in
the USA. I am based in Australia.
I do have to agree with you regarding one thing. If you only need to pass
your degree, software calculators are a little bit harder to learn at the beginning. However, if you do plan to continue with Maths after your degree, a software calculator is much better in the long term.
Regards
Santi
On 28 Nov 2018, at 9:42 pm, Ken Perry via BlindMath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> > wrote:
The major problem with the software calculators is they are not allowed
on standardized tests in schools. The second problem is you spend a lot of time learning the tool such as matlab etc and not doing your course work.
You probably should learn more powerful tools if you're going to continue on with math but if your just doing math as a means to get a degree and you're not interested in sticking with math learning something like matlab is overkill. The Orion TI-84 is designed using the TI-84 because still to this day most math books are using it as the examples. Most math classes across the USA are using it as the base tool. This means a blind student doesn't need to do anything different. As Bill said the only difference is the MathPrint mode is not yet supported on the Orion TI-84. That is just a graphical system to do problems as they are printed on paper. The calculator loses no functionality with out that mode so you can do everything your counter parts in class are doing and the instructor in most cases does not have to even change the way instruction is done. You can get up and running with the Orion TI-84 in no time. I would say the only weird thing about the Orion TI-84 is you have to charge the top part and put batteries in the bottom part. That confuses some people because if the calculator stops talking they sometimes don't understand they have to keep the top part charge to keep it talking while the batteries in the bottom part keep the
TI-84 going. With that said the Orion TI-84 is not hard to learn when you are in a class that is using it. It is not hard to learn if you are using it on your own for that matter. It is just easier to learn when your in a class where everyone else is using the same tools.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Santiago
Velasquez via BlindMath
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 11:57 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Santiago Velasquez <zanty410 at gmail.com <mailto:zanty410 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessible Calculators:
Hi Kendra,
Have you considered looking at software calculators instead. Something
like MatLab.
In the long term they will provide more flexibility, and from experience
they are more accessible. I personally use MatLab for my engineering degree, and I just cannot justify the handheld calculators.
regards
Santi
On 28 Nov 2018, at 6:59 am, Kendra Schaber via BlindMath
<blindmath at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org> > wrote:
Hi all! I'm required to use an IT83 in my math class in January. I was
also recamended to work with the APH TI84 because it has the added talking peace added onto it. Unfortunently, when I talked with my education team just before lunch, the APH Ti84 got some sceptisism and my technology teacher also didn't get enough good reviews regarding this calculator. Has anyone used it in math class? If so, what are your experiences with the APH
TI84 graphic calculator with the talking peace added to it? How did it work for you? Were you able to use it independently and without problems? If not, what are the problems? How did you get around those problems? Are there areas where you have to have sited help with this calculator? Can you use it out of the box? Did a sited person have to set it up for you? Even more importantly, are you able to use the whole calculator without sited help?
The more I know about this calculator, the marrier!!! I need to educate my education team myself on this matter.
Thank you for taking the time to read this E Mail!
Blessed be!!!
Kendra Schaber,
Chemeketa Community College,
350 Org,
Citizen's Climate Lobby,
National Federation of the Blind of Oregon, Capitol Chapter, Salem,
Oregon.
Home email:
Redwing731 at gmail.com <mailto:Redwing731 at gmail.com>
Chemeketa Community College Email:
Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu <mailto:Kschaber at my.Chemeketa.edu>
Phone:
971-599-9991
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" Author Unknown.
Sent From My iPhone SE.
Sent from My Gmail Email.
Get Outlook Express for IOS.
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