[BlindMath] Another thought on high school graphics

Sat Jul 28 12:19:50 UTC 2018

I missed the original question about high school graphics but read through
most of Sabra's response and the responses today. Everyone has great
suggestions.  One thing I thought I would add that would have solved Sabra's
problem is that my son was given an opportunity to "preview" the graphics
and equations that he would be encountering in his regular Math class by
taking an on level main stream Math Support class.  This class would
reinforce what was happening in the regular Math class so that when he got
there - he had at least an idea of what was going to be presented and how.
The class was a regular class - but his para or TVI had accommodated large
print or tactile graphics for him or gotten manipulatives which are really
helpful with geometry.  In some cases, either his para or TVI or I would
build representations of the models - particularly circles and triangles
when they overlapped.  It depended on if they popped up in class, on a test
or with his homework.  In addition, they could give him guided desk copies
of the instruction so that he could preview it and focus on listening while
the instruction was happening.  The downside to this solution is you give up
another class.  We solved this by him taking one class over the summer -
usually health or PE.  However, he did take AP World History and Spanish 3
over the summer as well.  If the TVI or Para worked with the Math teacher to
prepare materials the student could preview in a Study Skills or Math
Support class, that could be helpful.  My son also used that class when his
extended time on tests ran over into another period.  He could miss it
without missing too much instruction in other classes to finish his test.

Mary Woodyard

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2018 8:00 AM
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Subject: BlindMath Digest, Vol 144, Issue 22

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: LaTeX to Math ml? (Boris Veytsman)
   2. Re: Geometry in a high school mainstream class (Mike Gorse)
   3. Re: Geometry in a high school mainstream class (Sarah Jevnikar)
   4. Re: LaTeX to Math ml? (Doug and Molly Miron)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 07:51:17 -0700
From: Boris Veytsman <borisv at lk.net>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] LaTeX to Math ml?
Message-ID: <201807271451.w6REpHBW031857 at bilbo.localnet>

MLvB> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:14:05 -0400
MLvB> From: Michael Link via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>

MLvB> I would personally spend the time getting used to LaTeX.  Most
MLvB> college math professors will be using LaTeX as their primary way
MLvB> to write up assignments and tests, and it will make your life
MLvB> easier to start to understand the formatting of it.  I now have
MLvB> to create all of my work in LaTeX, and am feeling the learning
MLvB> curve myself. I'm sure there are many on this forum and others
MLvB> that can help you get set up, myself included.

A related question: are the current LaTeX learning materials (books,
web pages etc) adequate for blind persons?  Most of those I've read
are visually oriented: this LaTeX code produces an equation that looks
like this.  I would imagine we need something contents-oriented: this
LaTeX code has this meaning.

We at TUG have TeX education working group,
https://tug.org/twg/edutex/.  If there are some materials useful
specifically for teaching visually impaired persons, let me know, and
I will add links to the edutex web page.  If there are no such
materials, we can talk to publishers about a book project.

-- 
Good luck

-Boris

It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
		-- Rod Serling

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 10:37:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mike Gorse <mike at straddlethebox.org>
To: Sabra Ewing via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Geometry in a high school mainstream class
Message-ID: <alpine.LSU.2.20.1807271014551.18832 at straddlethebox.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

I don't really have an answer to the question being asked. When I was in 
high school, my geometry teacher placed slides on an overhead projector. 
He would give the slides to my TVI in advance, and she would create 
tactile versions for me and the other blind student in the class. I found 
Sabra's examples to be interesting, since I mostly remember a lot of 
triangles and other shapes, but then it's been over 20 years since I've 
been in high school... Incidentally, I was placed in a "regular" geometry 
class, rather than the advanced class, at least partly because the teacher 
who taught the advanced class used the blackboard, rather than using 
slides that could be handed out in advance. My grades in that class 
weren't good enough to meet the guidelines that the school used for 
allowing me to take the advanced-level math class the following year, 
which I consider to be a form of prove-it-again bias, although it ended up 
not mattering, since my family moved across country the following year.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 12:07:04 -0400
From: "Sarah Jevnikar" <sarah.jevnikar at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Geometry in a high school mainstream class
Message-ID: <5b5b4328.1c69fb81.13e5a.ceee at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hi there,
I think the question of graphics has been covered by enough people that I
don't have much to add here. What I would add though, for the question of
formulae, is that the teacher ideally should read them as they're writing
them or presenting them. It will help all students learn to read math
according to convention, and would allow the student to take down notes as
they go. Perhaps the paraprofessional, the student and the teacher could
meet beforehand to discuss how best this could be achieved. The student
needs to be their own advocate here, as in university or college there won't
be any in-class support and they may as well get started asking the teacher
for the information they need so it's not such a shock at post-secondary
where they will be largely responsible for their own materials.

Alternatively, do they have access to a Braille notetaker or a laptop with a
Braille display? Would it be possible to gain access to the same platform as
the teacher so they could read along on those devices? I'm not familiar with
these kinds of things (my school was pretty low-tech) so I don't know if
this is a viable option.

I hope this helps somewhat,
Sarah
-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Gorse via BlindMath
Sent: July 27, 2018 11:38 AM
To: Sabra Ewing via BlindMath
Cc: Mike Gorse
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Geometry in a high school mainstream class

I don't really have an answer to the question being asked. When I was in 
high school, my geometry teacher placed slides on an overhead projector. 
He would give the slides to my TVI in advance, and she would create 
tactile versions for me and the other blind student in the class. I found 
Sabra's examples to be interesting, since I mostly remember a lot of 
triangles and other shapes, but then it's been over 20 years since I've 
been in high school... Incidentally, I was placed in a "regular" geometry 
class, rather than the advanced class, at least partly because the teacher 
who taught the advanced class used the blackboard, rather than using 
slides that could be handed out in advance. My grades in that class 
weren't good enough to meet the guidelines that the school used for 
allowing me to take the advanced-level math class the following year, 
which I consider to be a form of prove-it-again bias, although it ended up 
not mattering, since my family moved across country the following year.

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:38:30 -0500
From: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
To: Boris Veytsman via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] LaTeX to Math ml?
Message-ID: <a35cc010-283c-deb6-8a9c-143863913827 at hbci.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I used NVDA and MathPlayer to learn from web-based materials with no 
particular problems.? The equation examples were properly spoken.---Doug 
Niron

On 7/27/2018 9:51 AM, Boris Veytsman via BlindMath wrote:
> MLvB> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 23:14:05 -0400
> MLvB> From: Michael Link via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
>
> MLvB> I would personally spend the time getting used to LaTeX.  Most
> MLvB> college math professors will be using LaTeX as their primary way
> MLvB> to write up assignments and tests, and it will make your life
> MLvB> easier to start to understand the formatting of it.  I now have
> MLvB> to create all of my work in LaTeX, and am feeling the learning
> MLvB> curve myself. I'm sure there are many on this forum and others
> MLvB> that can help you get set up, myself included.
>
>
> A related question: are the current LaTeX learning materials (books,
> web pages etc) adequate for blind persons?  Most of those I've read
> are visually oriented: this LaTeX code produces an equation that looks
> like this.  I would imagine we need something contents-oriented: this
> LaTeX code has this meaning.
>
> We at TUG have TeX education working group,
> https://tug.org/twg/edutex/.  If there are some materials useful
> specifically for teaching visually impaired persons, let me know, and
> I will add links to the edutex web page.  If there are no such
> materials, we can talk to publishers about a book project.
>

------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of BlindMath Digest, Vol 144, Issue 22
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