[BlindMath] BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3

Sun Sep 15 07:20:48 UTC 2019

Also, that's not to say some symbols won't read, or plain and simple won't
show on a braille display.
Take care,
Derek

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 1:19 AM Derek Scott Riemer <
Derek.Riemer at colorado.edu> wrote:

> As of recentt NVDA versions, we support reading thousands of Unicode
> symbols. Of course, I recommend using punctuation level of all.
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 7:59 AM Steve Jacobson via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Elizabeth,
>>
>> I have limited exposure to VoiceOver on the MAC having spent most of my
>> life in the Windows world.  Still, I have come to the position that one
>> can't flat out say that one system is better than the other, they are
>> different.  There are clearly some things that VoiceOver does better than
>> do screen readers in the Windows environment, but there cases where the
>> same can be said of the Windows world.  Having said all this, are you
>> saying in your note below that Windows screen readers can't do such things
>> as reading technical symbols?  I think that capability is in both platforms
>> but it can depend upon which software that one uses to some degree.  I
>> would truly like to understand this more completely.  To be clear, I am
>> really glad we have the support that exists on the MAC.  It provides a
>> valuable alternative, and as you say, there are cases where it is the
>> platform of choice for certain careers.  I have done a good deal of audio
>> editing in Windows for a good number of years now, but I am hoping to get
>> some exposure to how it is done on the MAC, because I've heard that certain
>> aspects are easier.  However, even with my first name, I am no "Stevie
>> wonder."  <smile>,
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Pyatt,
>> Elizabeth J via BlindMath
>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 8:06 AM
>> To: Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu; blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Pyatt, Elizabeth J <ejp10 at psu.edu>
>> Subject: [BlindMath] Fwd: BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3
>>
>> Susan:
>>
>> I worked with two students now who are on VoiceOver/Mac and who really
>> prefer it over JAWS/NVDA. One is hoping to go into sound production and
>> that environment is extremely Mac dependent. In fact an Apple commercial
>> features Stevie Wonder using VoiceOver and a digital music program before
>> he sings with Audra Day.
>>
>> It’s true that the Mac won’t work with MathML in Word, but will read it
>> in an HTML document. Fortunately, the Central Washington CAR tool
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cwu.edu%2Fcentral-access%2Freader&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513669503&sdata=lBAP5CZLBXp6GMKvx9JDg3d6Qh2JyxTFQ7iutgXgE4A%3D&reserved=0
>> (Windows) can convert an accessible Word document with MathType embedded
>> equations to HTML with usable MathML.
>>
>> What I really love about VoiceOver though is its default support for
>> technical symbols (the minus sign, negative numbers, math operators, Greek
>> letters, logic symbols, arrows). When an expression is just one line, we
>> can often write it out as plain text for VoiceOver students, but would need
>> to convert it to MathML/MathType for JAWS/NVDA.
>>
>> For a Stats course, we learned to supplement that with ASCII math
>> expressions like x-bar, h0 (h sub 0), x^y (x to the y) to avoid using
>> MathML except for extremely complicated equations.
>>
>> Of course, the student will likely need to learn VoiceOver someday, but
>> it is actually very powerful. Since so many computer scientists use
>> Mac/Unix combinations, I understand why he wants to stay on that platform.
>>
>> Apple has some good VoiceOver training materials at
>>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhelp.apple.com%2Fvoiceover%2Fmac%2F10.14%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513669503&sdata=x65%2FiTrv%2FTsA0yZU7aSWzy%2FRKn6s%2Bx%2BbnkYYH1TXJtM%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> The interface is definitely different from JAWS/NVDA, but once you work
>> with it a bit, it really does have some nice features. For one thing, it
>> can highlight the text its reading which could help low vision users make a
>> transition. At some point, learning to use JAWS/NVDA is also useful when
>> that’s the best options.
>>
>> Hope this is useful.
>>
>> P.S. Full disclosure, I am a sighted Mac user, but am able to also use
>> Windows as needed for producing ALT formats.
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: blindmath-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath-request at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3
>> Date: September 13, 2019 at 8:00:01 AM EDT
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Reply-To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via
>> BlindMath
>> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:36 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:
>> Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>>
>> Subject: [BlindMath] Low vision student wanting to hear math on a Mac
>>
>> I've been on this list for several years and read much of what you post,
>> and
>> have learned a lot.  I'm an alternate format provider for students at the
>> University of Colorado, and I have a new problem and don't know how to
>> help
>> my student.
>>
>> He is a math and computer science major with low vision and refuses to
>> move
>> to a Windows machine or to use a screen reader.  He has familiarity with
>> Voiceover on his Mac.  He has some vision and has gotten through math in
>> the
>> past with enlargements, but he's reached a point in his college career
>> where
>> this is just not going to be enough.
>>
>> I'm creating math-enabled files, that can be read easily on a Windows
>> machine, but I'm not having any luck getting this to work on a Mac.  I've
>> tried epub3, which works but doesn't read all the characters in an
>> equation.
>> I've tried just using a mathml file (I get a javascript error when I try
>> to
>> open it in Safari and then it opens the file but all the math is missing),
>> I've tried straight-up word files with Mathtype.  Nothing is working.  I
>> can't seem to adjust the verbosity settings on voiceover to anything but
>> "all" or "some" but no fine tuning.  So while it reads the math it puts
>> in a
>> lot of extra stuff if I am using the "all" setting, and doesn't read the
>> basics (like parenthesis) if I set it to "some."  I am creating all files
>> in
>> Word with Mathtype on a PC.
>>
>> Any suggestions for me and my student?
>>
>> Susan Kelmer
>> Alternate Format Production Program Manager
>> Disability Services
>> University of Colorado Boulder
>> 303-735-4836
>>
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>> Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
>> Accessibility IT Consultant
>> ejp10 at psu.edu<mailto:ejp10 at psu.edu>
>>
>> The 300 Building, 112
>> 304 West College Avenue
>> University Park, PA 16802
>> accessibility.psu.edu<
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faccessibility.psu.edu&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513679512&sdata=xz%2FEzTGjQaYmjy7SaLlnoMOOwYorLHJuNaSF%2FlTH%2B3k%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
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>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513679512&sdata=72pUn%2BaGQt%2FJKyQ4vINV0Yj1kuQD2VbFgYfjvPexZiQ%3D&reserved=0
>> >
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>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1gUqVLZTNg2k4OwAgp0ooxbZGiTJoxdw6ksRUluixp5IAIdjomK41wJWH7nW86zzhyBVvdgYpLQpXyDjiMjBcP0dOOsZar7EH3QhjHqc4L9LmIfCgw-zYvQphZb-sE77KyGmDm_bhxHfoUon8lQksp7bYaXX91hukw00P3yAICqzcH4R-BhsvJkKKWhOKG_AOrmOVgdRALVDcjBT6VxDXSQs25e4WKFrGQ8QG9a1BAt318nWIS8wlBEEFJvtWphwu4oTrJG5r480kSmzQLHc0b3NGcjHcv1eZBmCd4RamohPchrxq_w5fqH0w1_isd-THJOwRKL1BCNJ0GW34h0mLYZZGa4TNgBgI-h20LTSyy5S1UdfUcEaT8fE34rI2K1oTFKuioj1BEDTmGebbAL42iDgt3uocb4n3jixN0hiDh5gdzdu4TVemcrCMTvZvrYuQJlV8y31ioxi4lyMOIo1WQQ/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blindscience.org%2Fblindmath-gems-home
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!
>
>    - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
>    year undergraduate student.
>    - Accessibility enthusiast.
>    - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
>    - Open source enthusiast.
>    - Skier.
>
> Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>
>

-- 

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

   - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
   year undergraduate student.
   - Accessibility enthusiast.
   - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
   - Open source enthusiast.
   - Skier.

Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>