[BlindMath] Asking Mathworks to improve access for latest MatLab version

Wed Jul 13 13:42:43 UTC 2022

Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for your response.

The accessibility team at MathWorks works with universities (accessibility coordinators, etc.) and blind users of MATLAB, mostly  in academia (researchers, students, etc.), to test, document, and remediate the accessibility of all aspects of the MATLAB environment. We try to test the accessibility improvements with actual users to make sure that the progress is real. That is why the input from communities like Blind Math is important as it is often difficult for us to grasp the complexities of individual workflows and technologies used (combination of screen readers, Braille displays, etc.) by blind users.

The work is certainly not limited to MATLAB Online, but that is currently where most of the progress has been made since web technologies make it easier and faster to improve the accessibility of the software. However, there is ongoing work on all versions of MATLAB environments.

We would sincerely appreciate any input if you or other members of the Blind Math group would like to talk to us about your accessibility challenges in MATLAB.

Thanks,
Bora Eryilmaz

From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey via BlindMath
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 5:31 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Asking Mathworks to improve access for latest MatLab version

Hello Bora,

Thank you for making yourself known to the list. It sounds encouraging that there is an accessibility team, but what that means in reality is unknown. Could you elaborate please?

Can I ask why the online solution is seen as a preference to a local machine running jobs? There are reasons why most users using the locally installed version are doing so. If the cloud based service was superior in terms of performance, then everyone would switch to the cloud. FWIW: this is the argument I have with another software development endeavour unrelated to Matlab.

I'm concerned that the web based option is inefficient compared to a properly functioning local version. Comparing a bad option to an even worse one doesn't sit well with me. What that says is that substandard service is acceptable as long as it can be shown that its better than having zero service.

Why can we not have a properly functioning version that meets 2022 standards of computational efficiency and decent accessibility? Other products deliver on this combination.

At some point, someone in a litigious frame of mind might take action against anyone expecting their students to use inaccessible software. It won't be me, because I live in a country that doesn't support such actions, but we do have access legislation coming to our Parliament this month.

In my previous post on this topic, I dared to mention your competition. In spite of the somewhat limited budget open source software lives off, the open source projects that embrace accessibility do so in a truly impressive fashion. In the last 48 hours, I've had interactions with an open source project hat I think will have massive benefits to the blind people wanting to use computational tools on an equal footing with their sighted colleagues or classmates. In a meeting I had with another blind person 24 hours ago, I commented that a particular product he and I both have a link to hasn't done anything tangible to improve accessibility, and the reality as I see it that it never will; it will be overtaken by other solutions already making progress for blind people.

I would add the ongoing frustrations of inaccessible LaTeX outcomes as a further example. Life is too short for blind people to put their employment, education, and therefore lives on hold while access barriers are talked about without being removed.

Many thanks,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Bora Eryilmaz via BlindMath
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2022 12:34 am
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bora Eryilmaz <beryilma at mathworks.com<mailto:beryilma at mathworks.com>>
Subject: [BlindMath] Asking Mathworks to improve access for latest MatLab version

Hello John and others,

My name is Bora Eryilmaz and I work at the MathWorks, the maker of MATLAB. Specifically, I am a member of the Accessibility Program tasked with making MATLAB more accessible to blind users.

We have been making progress with supporting screen readers in MATLAB, especially in MATLAB Online. If you haven't already used it, MATLAB Online (https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatlab.mathworks.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uNLlb2opOzbZDmlIp9XADH90KG%2F7D1aFm4PivYfbvv8%3D&reserved=0<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatlab.mathworks.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uNLlb2opOzbZDmlIp9XADH90KG%2F7D1aFm4PivYfbvv8%3D&reserved=0><https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatlab.mathworks.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uNLlb2opOzbZDmlIp9XADH90KG%2F7D1aFm4PivYfbvv8%3D&reserved=0<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmatlab.mathworks.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uNLlb2opOzbZDmlIp9XADH90KG%2F7D1aFm4PivYfbvv8%3D&reserved=0>>) is a lot more accessible these days and could be a better alternative to using the nodesktop option with the regular MATLAB.

If you are interested in having a Zoom call to share your needs for a better MATLAB experience and perhaps demonstrate your current coding workflow, please contact me at my email address (beryilma at mathworks.com<mailto:beryilma at mathworks.com<mailto:beryilma at mathworks.com%3cmailto:beryilma at mathworks.com>>).

The following links also talk about accessibility features in MATLAB Online:

* Use a Screen Reader in MATLAB Online<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-use-a-screen-reader-to-access-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vN3YxXdoBaZ2s7bTmrjRaPPCgb57%2BCc0ARtEr1aVops%3D&reserved=0<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-use-a-screen-reader-to-access-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vN3YxXdoBaZ2s7bTmrjRaPPCgb57%2BCc0ARtEr1aVops%3D&reserved=0>>
* Accessibility in MATLAB<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-in-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V%2Fi8jy6o%2Bb1Tx3spvhWzhnf41ygaFDKSSQA3FP8pDsI%3D&reserved=0<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-in-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=V%2Fi8jy6o%2Bb1Tx3spvhWzhnf41ygaFDKSSQA3FP8pDsI%3D&reserved=0>>
* Use Keyboard Shortcuts to Navigate MATLAB<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-use-keyboard-shortcuts-to-navigate-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FfpYnW4j1%2B5dzvCDErydzL1pmWRhn45VTHfYRDTYN3o%3D&reserved=0<https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mathworks.com%2Fhelp%2Fmatlab%2Fmatlab_env%2Faccessibility-use-keyboard-shortcuts-to-navigate-matlab.html&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C6064746edb5b42742dde08da6403254c%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C637932261959894694%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FfpYnW4j1%2B5dzvCDErydzL1pmWRhn45VTHfYRDTYN3o%3D&reserved=0>>

Thanks,
Bora

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:00:58 -0700
From: John <johnmillerphd at hotmail.com<mailto:johnmillerphd at hotmail.com<mailto:johnmillerphd at hotmail.com%3cmailto:johnmillerphd at hotmail.com>>>
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>>
Subject: [BlindMath] Asking Mathworks to improve access for latest MatLab version
Message-ID:
<DS7PR19MB6048F80853F5DAB9FB0F0735A3879 at DS7PR19MB6048.namprd19.prod.outlook.com<mailto:DS7PR19MB6048F80853F5DAB9FB0F0735A3879 at DS7PR19MB6048.namprd19.prod.outlook.com<mailto:DS7PR19MB6048F80853F5DAB9FB0F0735A3879 at DS7PR19MB6048.namprd19.prod.outlook.com%3cmailto:DS7PR19MB6048F80853F5DAB9FB0F0735A3879 at DS7PR19MB6048.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>>>

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Hello, I continue to recommend using MatLab from Mathworks for data analysis such as plots or complex calculations. I am having good results with MatLab 2018b with the -nodesktop option. However,I am encountering some challenges with the most recent MatLab version 2022a. I use MatLab with a refreshable braille display. I have made a support request to Mathworks with case number 05621801. If you are using MatLab with a Windows PC, please provide me your email information. Perhaps together we can encourage Mathworks to get MatLab to provide sufficiently good speech and braille experience for professional or student use.
>
> Below is a summary of my service request to Mathworks:
> Description:
> I am a blind Engineer and use MatLab at work.
> I use a braille display from Humanware, the Brailliant BI 40 along with a screen reader JAWS 2022 from Vispero.
> I have always accessed Matlab by typing matlab -nodesktop.
> This works well with Matlab r2018b. It works somewhat okay with Matlab r2022a.
> For matlab r2022a When I type an expression at the command prompt Matlab is breaking the command into two pieces and trying to execute the characters of the first piece as a command.
> Matlab historically has not worked well without running the nodesktop option for blind individuals.
> This is particularly true when reviewing matlab output with a refreshable braille display.
> Also, 2022a with the -nodesktop option has some trouble launching the matlab debugger and setting break points.
>
> My blind colleagues who run Matlab on a Mac have a good experience. For the windows platform, however, the nodesktop option has been the best blind user experience. Can you help get Matlab 2022a and future versions working well for blind users in particular with good speech output and good braille output on Windows machines?
>
> Email: Johnmillerphd at hotmail.com<mailto:Johnmillerphd at hotmail.com<mailto:Johnmillerphd at hotmail.com%3cmailto:Johnmillerphd at hotmail.com>>
>
> Best Regards,
> John Miller
>

------------------------------

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