[BlindMath] mathpix cli

Wed Jul 12 01:51:19 UTC 2023

Amen!

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan Godfrey
via BlindMath
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:21 PM
To: Rich Caloggero <rjc at mit.edu>; Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] mathpix cli

Rich and all,

You will not find any arguments from me that markdown is an extremely useful
tool.
I use markdown practically every working day of my life. All of my teaching
materials are written in markdown so that they are shared in HTML which is
the most convenient format for the sighted students to use. The result is
that I proof-read all of my own work now, because it is finally possible to
do so.

I have not created an MS Word document or a LaTeX document for anyone else's
use since before 2017. I must of course continue to use these file formats
and processes but more often than not, they are pushed through pandoc to
give me a cleaner consumer experience.

I do question the need to develop yet another flavour of markdown though.
I should point out that most of my markdown work uses a dedicated flavour of
markdown (R markdown) but it is converted to regular markdown on its way to
being HTML. The *.md file exists.
The creators of R markdown needed to bring R to markdown without putting
effort into processing markdown; they levered off pandoc from day 1.

I also expect my students to use R markdown because it is smart professional
practice. The side effect is that I have not paid anyone to read submitted
assignment work or exams since 2021. (It took a while to change the
university, but lockdowns were very helpful for killing off pen and paper
exams)

In order to show my students why they should use markdown, I demonstrate use
of markdown, and I give them access to the raw content for everything they
see.
One of the key reasons I like to use R markdown is that I show how painless
making a mistake can be. If I don't like something or my data changes, I
just re-process all the work with the press of a button (batch file usually)
and everything gets nicely updated, for me and the students.

Gone are the headaches of copy and paste followed by wasted time spent on
formatting. I'm working smarter and watching others who do not want to
embrace modern practice work harder. In 2024, I will have the heaviest
teaching load of the staff in my department. Why? Because I'm not
relinquishing things that work well for me, and risking being given
something that doesn't work so easily. When the next shuffle of work comes
when a staff member retires/resigns, I will not be the one the team leader
looks to for a  solution.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Caloggero <rjc at mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2023 2:01 AM
To: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>; Blind Math list for those
interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] mathpix cli

curious to know what your objection to markdown code is in general. I **do
not** want to start a flame war over this; just a curiocity.

I've not studied MathPix Markdown, but I think the original markdown (as a
quick way of writing HTML) is hugely helpful at least to me.  It's not only
much easier to type, but because it's so compact, it's easy to edit and
proofread via screen reader!

On 7/11/2023 5:33 AM, Jonathan Godfrey wrote:
> Is the mmd extension not also used for mermaid code? <sigh>
>
> Seems unfortunate these people used yet another mark down/up variant.
>
> I'm sure they won't be the last.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Rastislav 
> Kish via BlindMath
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 9:29 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Rastislav Kish <rastislav.kish at protonmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] mathpix cli
>
> Hi,
>
> the way Mathpix' PDF endpoint works is it converts the uploaded file to
.mmd format i.e. the mathpix markdown, and renders it afterwards to docx,
html, etc.
>
> There seem unfortunately to be no options to control the conversion now,
unlike the text endpoint, which can even produce asciimath.
>
>
> But you should try to contact the support in this regard, as it's 
> certainly an accessibility issue.
>
> I think the text endpoint does support converting into MathML, so they 
> should already have the tech stack, it should be just a matter of 
> implementation.
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Rastislav
>
>
> Dňa 10. 7. 2023 o 23:01 Rich Caloggero via BlindMath napísal(a):
>> Using mathpix CLI, when I submit a pdf and attempt to convert it to 
>> html, I get backa file which has no MathML in it; it appears to use 
>> SVG images. It also seems to use mathjax, but there are no script 
>> elements which load mathjax.
>>
>>
>> I tried adding one by hand, but didn't seem to do anything.
>>
>>
>> Looking at the CLI options, there doesn't seem to be any options to 
>> choose output format.
>>
>>
>> When a colleague used the desktop app to convert, the output did seem 
>> to contain mathML, and it was indeed readable via NVDA+mathcat.
>>
>>
>> What am I missing?
>>
>>
>> Interestingly, I can use the webapp to upload and convert a pdf to 
>> HTML, and if I use the "generate speech" option in the settings, then 
>> it does seem to produce something which is sort of readable, but it 
>> is not mathML; it is a bunch of math blocks containing various output 
>> flavors, but all of them hidden except for svg. The svg container has 
>> aria-label="words representing the math expression as MathSpeak".
>>
>>
>> What am I missing? Am I supposed to hand code mathjax configuration? 
>> Why doesn't the CLI allow me to choose this at conversion time?
>>
>>
>> I must be missing something obvious!
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rich Caloggero
>> Accessibility Specialist
>> Disability and Access Services
>> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>>
>>
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>
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>
>
--
Rich Caloggero
Accessibility Specialist
Disability and Access Services
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

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