[BlindRUG] [External] Re: RStudio is now Posit - does this mean anything for us, was: RE: message from Gary

Tue Mar 5 19:51:13 UTC 2024

Hello Brian and all,

The LURN book was set up to become the accessible resource you describe. When I started that project, the resources in the mainstream were 99% inaccessible pdf; we now have a considerable number of quite accessible resources so my efforts to keep LURN updated have fallen away.

I have no problem passing LURN on to someone who wants to continue it. I did arrange it in a fairly complicated fashion to separate the R commands from the prose so that translations could be made of the prose. I don't now how necessary that is anymore given how easily someone could use generative AI to translate pages into their language of choice.

I think we still lack an openly available set of instructions to pass to blind people who want to set up VS Code as their working environment. Pretty much all else exists somewhere.

The rate at which I receive queries about the accessibility of R has dropped over the last ten years. I used to get five to ten each semester; today I get one or two. That says the word is getting out there.

Several articles on accessibility of courses and material appear in the Journal of Statistics Education now named to include "Data Science" as well. They are not just about blind people's needs but we do get a strong mention. I count this as a massive milestone; not only were blind people talking access, but sighted people have become access crusaders too.

All the best,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindRUG <blindrug-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Richwine, Brian L via BlindRUG
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 4:04 AM
To: Blind R Users Group <blindrug at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Richwine, Brian L <brichwin at iu.edu>
Subject: Re: [BlindRUG] [External] Re: RStudio is now Posit - does this mean anything for us, was: RE: message from Gary

Hi, Henrik-

I'm interested in working on a project like the community-driven "Accessible User Guide to R" book. My colleague and I have been working to promote the accessibility of STEM materials and the support for STEM materials in assistive technologies. One project we have is creating a resource that shows faculty why using R creates a more inclusive experience and enables independence. In many higher ed graduate programs, faculty insist on using other less accessible data analysis tools and students either drop their course or end up working with a sighted assistant. Even in the courses where faculty use R, they don't know how to support students that use various forms of AT -- and neither do most disability services office staff members.

After reading through the ISC Grant Program via the link you provided, I see it says projects that "Impact only a small part of the R community" are generally not accepted. Do you know what the ISC's disposition is to accessibility and disability awareness? Would they see the effort to promote accessibility in R has having a broad impact by allowing for a more diverse user base?

Best regards,
  Brian Richwine

Brian Richwine, CPACC
UITS Senior Accessibility Strategist – Learning Technologies, Indiana University

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindRUG <blindrug-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Henrik Bengtsson via BlindRUG
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 5:10 AM
To: Blind R Users Group <blindrug at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Henrik Bengtsson <henrik.bengtsson at gmail.com>
Subject: [External] Re: [BlindRUG] RStudio is now Posit - does this mean anything for us, was: RE: message from Gary

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

> As a community, perhaps we can speed up the wheels of progress again with a concerted effort targeted at the powers that be. That may be wishful thinking, but we won’t know unless we try.

Related: I think it would be beneficial if there was a go-to "current-state" of report for the accessibility of R. This could be published regularly, say every second year.  I think that would help to increase the awareness in the whole community, and get a sense of progress, and what problems have to be solved.

Maybe such a report could point to a community-driven "Accessibility User Guide to R" book, that would help answer questions like this one here. Assuming Quarto Book can produce accessible HTML output, I think that would be a good candidate. This type of book could also help sighted developers to know what the current problems are, which would help them avoid doing the same mistakes and work towards better solutions.

I think such projects could be a fit for an R Consortium Infrastructure Steering Committee (ISC) grant, especially if it can help improve the technical infrastructure of R. The next application deadline is April 1, and the one after six months later, and so on.
See https://www.r-consortium.org/all-projects/call-for-proposals for details. (Disclaimer: I'm the ISC Chair, but the decision to award proposals is done by all ISC members collectively)

Best,

Henrik

On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 1:30 AM Robin Williams via BlindRUG <blindrug at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Thanks to Gary for his thoughtful contribution.
>
>
>
> It is at least vaguely reassuring to know that accessibility at RStudio isn’t a completely dead duck. Over the next week I will endeavour to have a play with the latest build. As a community, perhaps we can speed up the wheels of progress again with a concerted effort targeted at the powers that be. That may be wishful thinking, but we won’t know unless we try.
>
>
>
> From: BlindRUG <blindrug-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jonathan
> Godfrey via BlindRUG
> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 8:28 PM
> To: Seo, JooYoung via BlindRUG <blindrug at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jonathan Godfrey <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
> Subject: [BlindRUG] message from Gary
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Seems Gary is having trouble posting to Blind RUG. He has just sent me a message which I have snipped and clipped.
>
>
>
> See two parts below…
>
>
>
> <part 1 to me specifically, but now shared>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi. I did survive the cutbacks, but my full-time accessibility role was significantly scaled back.
>
>
>
> Your answer is spot-on; even though RStudio is becoming somewhat accessible on a technical level, the overall UI design is such that I don't know that it will ever be pleasant or efficient to use via screen reader.
>
>
>
> <Part 2 to everyone>
>
>
>
> Hi, I'm the mentioned employee of Posit who is subscribed to this list.
>
>
>
> Most of my time at work is no longer directly focused on accessibility. This is why I've been lurking. I don't want to make promises beyond what I can realistically deliver in my role.
>
>
>
> Progress has been slow. Not zero, but slow. It's now in a place where RStudio is partially accessible to screen readers. However, usability for doing actual work via screen reader is still quite terrible (in my personal, non-scientific opinion).
>
>
>
> I usually make some accessibility fixes in each release of the RStudio IDE, so use the most recent release (2023.12.1) to try out screen-reader support.
>
>
>
> Be aware that a "screen reader mode" needs to be enabled for some features to work. You should get an announcement when you start RStudio with a screen reader running, telling you if the mode is off and which keyboard shortcut to use to enable it. Alt+Shift+/ on Windows. Once it's enabled, it will remain enabled for future sessions.
>
>
>
> For reading previous output in the Console, there is a command to set focus on the output region. On Windows, the shortcut is Alt+Shift+2, or alternatively, Ctrl+backtick (grave). To navigate this region once focused, you must switch the screen reader to browse or virtual cursor mode. We've tried coding this to make that switch happen automatically, but last time I checked it wasn't working consistently. I'm aware of the accessibility features in Visual Studio Code, and certainly would love to incorporate some of their ideas.
>
>
>
> Some significant remaining issues, with links to github, include:
>
> ·  autocomplete popups not announced by screen reader
>
> ·  Console history popup not announced by screen reader
>
> ·  keyboard focus not being well managed when showing different panes
>
> ·  Command palette sluggish with JAWS screen reader
>
> ·  a fundamentally busy and complex user interface
>
> ·  lots of quirks and bugs
>
> This article on RStudio Screen Reader support is still reasonably up-to-date.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> _______________________________________________
> BlindRUG mailing list
> BlindRUG at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbne/
> t.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindrug_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C02%7Cbrichw
> in%40iu.edu%7C7f1240e5824e4e21070b08dc3cfca984%7C1113be34aed14d00ab4bc
> dd02510be91%7C0%7C0%7C638452303089225151%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI
> joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7
> C%7C&sdata=qWeAXZFw0N1FVaZOMr7wLgWecYq6X985sIGQfqy9B4c%3D&reserved=0
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindRUG:
> http://nfbne/
> t.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindrug_nfbnet.org%2Fhenrik.bengtsson%254
> 0gmail.com&data=05%7C02%7Cbrichwin%40iu.edu%7C7f1240e5824e4e21070b08dc
> 3cfca984%7C1113be34aed14d00ab4bcdd02510be91%7C0%7C0%7C6384523030892283
> 91%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
> 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Uzao7OTZ9sVB5qIE6647Gnx4HrP
> Z1%2BJX14ouNRjZRQc%3D&reserved=0
> The list archive can be viewed at:
> http://www.n/
> %2F&data=05%7C02%7CA.J.Godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C1e13820e40a943a400a208
> dc3d25a42e%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C63845247909908
> 0645%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BYDZPiLsJ%2B9lY2L9SETK7on
> yMyVwvKI5Spf2AWpBbbA%3D&reserved=0
> fbnet.org%2Fpipermail%2Fblindrug_nfbnet.org&data=05%7C02%7Cbrichwin%40
> iu.edu%7C7f1240e5824e4e21070b08dc3cfca984%7C1113be34aed14d00ab4bcdd025
> 10be91%7C0%7C0%7C638452303089231480%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC
> 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&
> sdata=sxfF%2FHasnxC7VoYMaph9m1v%2BYAqNKZqG%2BHQU5zdJPzM%3D&reserved=0
> More information and useful links about using R as a blind person can be obtained at:
> http://r-res/
> ources.massey.ac.nz%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cbrichwin%40iu.edu%7C7f1240e5824e
> 4e21070b08dc3cfca984%7C1113be34aed14d00ab4bcdd02510be91%7C0%7C0%7C6384
> 52303089234527%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l
> uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R8x2BIf2wvmR7uN
> inNfcbV5j%2FIa8ST8Z%2BLfOq%2BepTXY%3D&reserved=0
>
> Look for help using R commands by reading the accessible e-book "Let's Use R Now" compiled by Jonathan Godfrey at:
> http://r-res/
> ources.massey.ac.nz%2Flurn%2Ffront.html&data=05%7C02%7Cbrichwin%40iu.e
> du%7C7f1240e5824e4e21070b08dc3cfca984%7C1113be34aed14d00ab4bcdd02510be
> 91%7C0%7C0%7C638452303089238041%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj
> AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdat
> a=jYbHBUBUAsOqBXRx20nYdbRpTo%2BvcPkYr0ozSNWvzwE%3D&reserved=0

_______________________________________________
BlindRUG mailing list
BlindRUG at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindrug_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindRUG:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindrug_nfbnet.org/brichwin%40iu.edu
The list archive can be viewed at:
http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindrug_nfbnet.org
More information and useful links about using R as a blind person can be obtained at:
http://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/

Look for help using R commands by reading the accessible e-book "Let's Use R Now" compiled by Jonathan Godfrey at:
http://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/lurn/front.html
_______________________________________________
BlindRUG mailing list
BlindRUG at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindrug_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindRUG:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindrug_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz
The list archive can be viewed at:
http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindrug_nfbnet.org
More information and useful links about using R as a blind person can be obtained at:
http://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/

Look for help using R commands by reading the accessible e-book "Let's Use R Now" compiled by Jonathan Godfrey at:
http://r-resources.massey.ac.nz/lurn/front.html