<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Jonathan, <br>
My professor pointed me to R Commander and R studio (a standalone
integrated development environment-style application to develop R
scripts). Neither of them are accessible, no speech output at all.
<br>
I think both user interfaces derive from Java. Your idea of
writing a version of the tcl/tk package which renders native,
OS-specific user interfaces is interesting, this should be a
manageable programming exercise and would make many packages
accessible. <br>
<br>
This being said, just making an integrated development environment
accessible doesn't necessarily make it useful for a blind user. I
think coding R is not that difficult (I'm quite code oriented
though so some people might disagree). An IDE makes the task
easier for the sighted, I don't know what functionality tools like
rcmdr and r studio offer but much of the advantage probably lies
in getting an overview of possible commands / variables on the
screen. Unless the UI is well thought out or scripted for in the
screen reader (quite a large task), a text editor and a good R
command reference are probably more usable in practice.<br>
Tim <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13-2-2015 20:45, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindRUG wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:D59DA89C3CD73C44A799E7087F8E6A9ED90179@tur-exch-node1.massey.ac.nz"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A question from Veronica about the
accessibility of libraries came up recently.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">R has picked up a number of unfortunate
terms that are in the opinion of some, rather misused.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The command library() loads an add-on
package. Packages are stored in libraries. The folder where
they are stored with the base distribution is called “library”
too.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So Veronica’s question was actually about
add-on packages and I now know she had discovered that one
package was not accessible. It is the R commander package
which is called Rcmdr for short. I’ve known for some time that
this package and others like it are not accessible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the case of Rcmdr, the GUI that the
developers have built for R is done using a TCL/TK package
that is part of the base distribution. It seems to me that any
GUI built using that set of tools will be as inaccessible as
Rcmdr. It looks like no one will put much energy into making
the outcomes of the TCL/TK package more accessible so the
developers who use it are stuck in an inaccessible
environment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have not created a list of the packages
that rely on TCL/TK but I’m pretty sure it is now possible to
do so. Given there are 6000 add-on packages on CRAN and many
others not on CRAN, I don’t see the point of creating the list
and having to update it frequently. I think a better approach
would be to find someone who could write an add-on package
that has all the functionality of the TCL/TK package but uses
an accessible set of tools instead. (That isn’t me by the way)
Perhaps an interface to the wxWidgets might be a starting
point; others will have greater knowledge than me and in the
end I don’t care how things work while they are working so
much. When they don’t work I want to know why.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In most cases, a package that builds a GUI
using TCL/TK has underlying commands being generated in a
retrievable manner. Those commands are probably more use to us
than the GUI will be for some time to come. When I last looked
at Rcmdr, it opened the GUI automatically which was
unfortunate. The first time I looked at it, the GUI didn’t
actually come up so the regular R session was still doing its
thing and I could use any of the commands provided by the
Rcmdr package without the GUI.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope this helps,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
BlindRUG mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:BlindRUG@nfbnet.org">BlindRUG@nfbnet.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindrug_nfbnet.org">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindrug_nfbnet.org</a>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for BlindRUG:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindrug_nfbnet.org/tim%40dvlop.nl">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindrug_nfbnet.org/tim%40dvlop.nl</a>
The list archive can be viewed at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindrug_nfbnet.org">http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindrug_nfbnet.org</a>
More information and useful links about using R as a blind person can be obtained at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz">http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz</a>
Look for help using R commands by reading the accessible e-book "Let's Use R Now" compiled by Jonathan Godfrey at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/lurn/front.html">http://R-Resources.massey.ac.nz/lurn/front.html</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>