[Blindtlk] Counting Steps
seville allen
ceoallen at verizon.net
Mon Jun 1 22:36:07 UTC 2009
Wow! Great, and the bread crumbs don't blow away or get eaten by the birds,
mice or rats? Well, you will understand why I asked as I've been through
rehab six times, so now you know how successful mobility and literature have
been for me. Rehab won't open a VR case for me another time.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:00 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
Seville, this kind of question could only come from someone who has no
experience with mobility or literature. The answer is so obvious I'm
embarrassed to say it here on the list, but, alas, here is my secret! I
leave breadcrumbs!
----- Original Message -----
From: "seville allen" <ceoallen at verizon.net>
To: "'Marion & Martin'" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing
List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
> Gary, what happens if you are counting steps and forget how many, do you
> have to return to the beginning and start over? And if the number of
> steps
> taken is forgotten, how do you get back to the beginning?
> (smile)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:50 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
> Gary,
> It seemed to me that the first mention of counting steps was referring
> to actual, literal steps up or down in a venue like a ballpark or concert
> hall, not the steps taken by a person one foot in front of the other. I've
> never counted my steps before; rather, I have relied upon other physical
> cues. I guess if it works, then it is a valid technique.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> Interesting. I've honestly, never tried the technique. Good to know it
>> can work. I assumed it had been disproven, or at least, not encouraged.
>> Well. We know what happens when one does that assume thing?
>> Hi. I'm Trish.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:21:41 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>When one counts steps, he doesn't count the steps of others - he
>> counts his
>>>own. There may indeed be some variability even with ones own
>> steps but it is
>>>not significant. If I think something is forty steps from the
>> turn, I start
>>>looking for my door at step 38.
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>I thought counting steps went out 100-years-ago, when the "mental
>> giants,
>>>>so called experts" figured out that not everyones steps were
>> equal or
>>>>always the same measure of stride? Looking on the bright side,
>> we'll
>>>>always be called to educate. Changing the world, one ignant mofo
>> at a
>>>>time.
>>
>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:44:25 -0700
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first
>>>> grade to
>>>>>count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being
>>>> taught to
>>>>>use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it when
>>>> people
>>>>>think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason that one
>>>> of the
>>>>>people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count steps is
>>>> that they
>>>>>didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because they
>>>> weren't exposed
>>>>>to blind people before me, as I was the only blind person in the
>>>> school.
>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools
>>>> never told
>>>>>> them that you can't do that.
>>>>>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let
>>>> the schools
>>>>>> raise the kids.
>>>>>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and
>>>> rock, and
>>>>>> shake there heads all the time, and people see that and think we
>>>> are all
>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>> Or they think we count steps.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk
>>>> Mailing
>>>>>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>>>>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to
>>>> appear blind
>>>>>>> and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable
>>>> stresses, but
>>>>>>> man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>
>>>>>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was) and
>>>>>>> I heard
>>>>>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and so,
>>>>>>> I reckoned
>>>>>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>>>>>> guess maybe
>>>>>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough sometimes;
>>>>>>> but, I
>>>>>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if you
>>>>>>> do so.
>>
>>>>>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a nice
>>>>>>> very long
>>>>>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>>>>>> don't go for
>>>>>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes and
>>>>>>> feels all
>>>>>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>
>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>
>>>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>>>>>> abroad you
>>>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>>>>>> your own land"
>>>>>>>>George Seferis
>>
>>>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>>>>>Cell:
>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk, the
>>>>>>>>lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>Diane,
>>
>>>>>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes to
>>>>>>>>someone,
>>>>>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
>>>>>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to me,
>>>>>>>>but I
>>>>>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
>>>>>>>>near me,
>>>>>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>>>>>you can tell
>>>>>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
>>>>>>>>there's
>>>>>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>>>>>they're looking at.
>>
>>>>>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>
>>>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>HI Paul,
>>
>>>>>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated,
>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>
>>>>>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>>>>>would say
>>>>>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>>>>>touch on
>>>>>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>>>>>there, or as
>>>>>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>
>>>>>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>>>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>>>that I know.
>>
>>>>>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>>>>>learned,
>>>>>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>>>>touched.
>>
>>>>>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>>>>>>>>hard
>>>>>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>>>>>strangers by
>>>>>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>>>>>associate
>>>>>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>>>>>someone or
>>>>>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>>>>>had to
>>>>>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>remember.
>>
>>>>>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
>>>>>>>>to is
>>>>>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>>>>>want to
>>>>>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>>>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>>like that.
>>
>>>>>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>>>>>evening,
>>>>>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>>>>>liberties
>>>>>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>
>>>>>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>>>>317-232-2647
>>
>>>>>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>>>>>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
>>>>>>>>for the
>>>>>>>>>individual or entity(ies)
>>>>>>>>>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>recipient, be
>>>>>>>>>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>acting in reliance
>>>>>>>>>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
>>>>>>>>sender to
>>>>>>>>>arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>>>>>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>>>>>>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
>>>>>>>>ask a
>>>>>>>>>question.
>>>>>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>>>>>>>>or for
>>>>>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>>>>>speaker
>>>>>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>>>>>to let
>>>>>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>>>>>>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>>>touched.
>>
>>>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>>>touched,
>>>>>>>>>When
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>>>really
>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>>>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>>>understand
>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>into
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>initiative
>>>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>attention
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Long
>>>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>generation.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
>>>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaching
>>>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discover
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>>> still there
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%
>>>>>>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sloss
e
> r
>>>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>--------
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>>>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>>>>>>radley%
>>>>>>>>>40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>--------
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>>05/26/09
>>>>>>>>>08:53:00
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pweinga
>>>>>>>>rtner%4
>>>>>>>>>0ag.org
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>>%40icrc
>>>>>>>>>..in.gov
>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>>>5%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetj
>>>>>>> r%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>> radley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb0
>>>> 06%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder
>> %40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>> %40metrocast.net
>>
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>> blindtlk mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
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>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ver
> izon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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k.net
>
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