[Blindtlk] Counting Steps
seville allen
ceoallen at verizon.net
Tue Jun 2 01:08:32 UTC 2009
Hi all, My note regarding counting steps and my rehab is a kidding with
Gary about counting steps. I'm actually retired from a good 30 plus years
of working, so actually, now that I have no employment goal, VR won't open a
seventh case for me. Thanks for your tips which were given in all
sincerity.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:07 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
That is absolutely true; REHAB can only provide you with the skills in
question.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anjelina" <cruz.anjelina at mchsi.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
> Rehab provides you with the skills but we as clients have to take them and
> put them into practice.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of seville allen
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:36 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
> Wow! Great, and the bread crumbs don't blow away or get eaten by the
> birds,
> mice or rats? Well, you will understand why I asked as I've been through
> rehab six times, so now you know how successful mobility and literature
> have
> been for me. Rehab won't open a VR case for me another time.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Gary Wunder
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:00 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
> Seville, this kind of question could only come from someone who has no
> experience with mobility or literature. The answer is so obvious I'm
> embarrassed to say it here on the list, but, alas, here is my secret! I
> leave breadcrumbs!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "seville allen" <ceoallen at verizon.net>
> To: "'Marion & Martin'" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing
> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
>
>> Gary, what happens if you are counting steps and forget how many, do
>> you have to return to the beginning and start over? And if the number
>> of steps taken is forgotten, how do you get back to the beginning?
>> (smile)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:50 PM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>>
>> Gary,
>> It seemed to me that the first mention of counting steps was
>> referring to actual, literal steps up or down in a venue like a
>> ballpark or concert hall, not the steps taken by a person one foot in
>> front of the other. I've never counted my steps before; rather, I have
>> relied upon other physical cues. I guess if it works, then it is a valid
> technique.
>>
>> Fraternally,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>> Interesting. I've honestly, never tried the technique. Good to know
>>> it can work. I assumed it had been disproven, or at least, not
> encouraged.
>>> Well. We know what happens when one does that assume thing?
>>> Hi. I'm Trish.
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
>>>>Sat, 30 May 2009 09:21:41 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>When one counts steps, he doesn't count the steps of others - he
>>> counts his
>>>>own. There may indeed be some variability even with ones own
>>> steps but it is
>>>>not significant. If I think something is forty steps from the
>>> turn, I start
>>>>looking for my door at step 38.
>>>
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I thought counting steps went out 100-years-ago, when the "mental
>>> giants,
>>>>>so called experts" figured out that not everyones steps were
>>> equal or
>>>>>always the same measure of stride? Looking on the bright side,
>>> we'll
>>>>>always be called to educate. Changing the world, one ignant mofo
>>> at a
>>>>>time.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:44:25 -0700
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first
>>>>> grade to
>>>>>>count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being
>>>>> taught to
>>>>>>use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it when
>>>>> people
>>>>>>think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason that one
>>>>> of the
>>>>>>people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count steps is
>>>>> that they
>>>>>>didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because they
>>>>> weren't exposed
>>>>>>to blind people before me, as I was the only blind person in the
>>>>> school.
>>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools
>>>>> never told
>>>>>>> them that you can't do that.
>>>>>>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let
>>>>> the schools
>>>>>>> raise the kids.
>>>>>>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and
>>>>> rock, and
>>>>>>> shake there heads all the time, and people see that and think we
>>>>> are all
>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>> Or they think we count steps.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk
>>>>> Mailing
>>>>>>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>>>>>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to
>>>>> appear blind
>>>>>>>> and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable
>>>>> stresses, but
>>>>>>>> man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>>>>sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was)
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>> I heard
>>>>>>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and
>>>>>>>>>so,
>>>>>>>> I reckoned
>>>>>>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>>>>>>> guess maybe
>>>>>>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough
>>>>>>>>>sometimes;
>>>>>>>> but, I
>>>>>>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>> do so.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a
>>>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>> very long
>>>>>>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>>>>>>> don't go for
>>>>>>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>> feels all
>>>>>>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>>>>>>> abroad you
>>>>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>>>>>>> your own land"
>>>>>>>>>George Seferis
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>>>>>>Cell:
>>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk,
>>>>>>>>>the lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>>>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>>>>>sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Diane,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>>>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>someone,
>>>>>>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would
>>>>>>>>>>touch
>>>>>>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to
>>>>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>>>>but I
>>>>>>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone
>>>>>>>>>>else,
>>>>>>>>>near me,
>>>>>>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>>>>>>you can tell
>>>>>>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But,
>>>>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>>>there's
>>>>>>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>>>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>>>>>>they're looking at.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
>>>>>>>>>>complicated,
>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>>>>>>would say
>>>>>>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>>>>>>touch on
>>>>>>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>>>>>>there, or as
>>>>>>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
>>>>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate
>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>>>>that I know.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>>>>>>learned,
>>>>>>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>>>>>touched.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a
>>>>>>>>>>real
>>>>>>>>>hard
>>>>>>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>>>>>>strangers by
>>>>>>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>>>>>>associate
>>>>>>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>>>>>>someone or
>>>>>>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>>>>>>had to
>>>>>>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>remember.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do
>>>>>>>>>>object
>>>>>>>>>to is
>>>>>>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>>>>>>want to
>>>>>>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
>>>>>>>>>>are helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>>>like that.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>>>>>>evening,
>>>>>>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>>>>>>liberties
>>>>>>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission Alternative Dispute Resolutions
>>>>>>>>>>Unit
>>>>>>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>>>>>>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended
>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>for the
>>>>>>>>>>individual or entity(ies)
>>>>>>>>>>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>recipient, be
>>>>>>>>>>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
>>>>>>>>>>distribution,
>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>acting in reliance
>>>>>>>>>>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If
>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
>>>>>>>>>sender to
>>>>>>>>>>arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>>>>>>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of
>>>>>>>>>>the candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would
>>>>>>>>>>like to
>>>>>>>>>ask a
>>>>>>>>>>question.
>>>>>>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>>>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person
>>>>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a
>>>>>>>>>>restaurant
>>>>>>>>>or for
>>>>>>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>>>>>>speaker
>>>>>>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>>>>>>to let
>>>>>>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what
>>>>>>>>>>I recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>>>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>>>>touched.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us
>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>>>>touched,
>>>>>>>>>>When
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me,
>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>>>>really
>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too
>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>>>>understand
>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>some situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to me to
>>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>touch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>easily
>>>>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>initiative
>>>>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>attention
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Long
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>glad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>older
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>generation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> younger, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaching
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discover
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touching which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am often
>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as odd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still there
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feels as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy4
>>>>>>>>>2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for blindtlk:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba
>>>>>>>>>%
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>account info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/s
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>loss
> e
>> r
>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>>>>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey
>>>>>>>>>>.b
>>>>>>>>>radley%
>>>>>>>>>>40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>>>05/26/09
>>>>>>>>>>08:53:00
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pwein
>>>>>>>>>>ga
>>>>>>>>>rtner%4
>>>>>>>>>>0ag.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgrav
>>>>>>>>>>es
>>>>>>>>>%40icrc
>>>>>>>>>>..in.gov
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy
>>>>>>>>>>42
>>>>>>>>>5%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sloss
>>>>>>>>>>er
>>>>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforet
>>>>>>>>>j
>>>>>>>> r%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosse
>>>>>>>>>r
>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>>> radley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb0
>>>>> 06%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder
>>> %40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ver
>> izon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/ceoallen%40verizon
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlin
> k.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cruz.anjelina%40mc
> hsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
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sightbb.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.49/2149 - Release Date: 06/01/09
17:55:00
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