[Blindtlk] Counting Steps
Bryan Schulz
b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jun 2 05:05:56 UTC 2009
ok
well that's what happens when people don't know you and you only tell half
the story.
Bryan Schulz
The BEST Solution
www.best-acts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "seville allen" <ceoallen at verizon.net>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
> Hi all, My note regarding counting steps and my rehab is a kidding with
> Gary about counting steps. I'm actually retired from a good 30 plus years
> of working, so actually, now that I have no employment goal, VR won't open
> a
> seventh case for me. Thanks for your tips which were given in all
> sincerity.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:07 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
> That is absolutely true; REHAB can only provide you with the skills in
> question.
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anjelina" <cruz.anjelina at mchsi.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>
>
>> Rehab provides you with the skills but we as clients have to take them
>> and
>> put them into practice.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of seville allen
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:36 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>>
>> Wow! Great, and the bread crumbs don't blow away or get eaten by the
>> birds,
>> mice or rats? Well, you will understand why I asked as I've been through
>> rehab six times, so now you know how successful mobility and literature
>> have
>> been for me. Rehab won't open a VR case for me another time.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gary Wunder
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:00 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>>
>> Seville, this kind of question could only come from someone who has no
>> experience with mobility or literature. The answer is so obvious I'm
>> embarrassed to say it here on the list, but, alas, here is my secret! I
>> leave breadcrumbs!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "seville allen" <ceoallen at verizon.net>
>> To: "'Marion & Martin'" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>>
>>
>>> Gary, what happens if you are counting steps and forget how many, do
>>> you have to return to the beginning and start over? And if the number
>>> of steps taken is forgotten, how do you get back to the beginning?
>>> (smile)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:50 PM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Counting Steps
>>>
>>> Gary,
>>> It seemed to me that the first mention of counting steps was
>>> referring to actual, literal steps up or down in a venue like a
>>> ballpark or concert hall, not the steps taken by a person one foot in
>>> front of the other. I've never counted my steps before; rather, I have
>>> relied upon other physical cues. I guess if it works, then it is a valid
>> technique.
>>>
>>> Fraternally,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> Interesting. I've honestly, never tried the technique. Good to know
>>>> it can work. I assumed it had been disproven, or at least, not
>> encouraged.
>>>> Well. We know what happens when one does that assume thing?
>>>> Hi. I'm Trish.
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent:
>>>>>Sat, 30 May 2009 09:21:41 -0500
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>When one counts steps, he doesn't count the steps of others - he
>>>> counts his
>>>>>own. There may indeed be some variability even with ones own
>>>> steps but it is
>>>>>not significant. If I think something is forty steps from the
>>>> turn, I start
>>>>>looking for my door at step 38.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I thought counting steps went out 100-years-ago, when the "mental
>>>> giants,
>>>>>>so called experts" figured out that not everyones steps were
>>>> equal or
>>>>>>always the same measure of stride? Looking on the bright side,
>>>> we'll
>>>>>>always be called to educate. Changing the world, one ignant mofo
>>>> at a
>>>>>>time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>>sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:44:25 -0700
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first
>>>>>> grade to
>>>>>>>count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being
>>>>>> taught to
>>>>>>>use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it when
>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason that one
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count steps is
>>>>>> that they
>>>>>>>didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because they
>>>>>> weren't exposed
>>>>>>>to blind people before me, as I was the only blind person in the
>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>>Sarah
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools
>>>>>> never told
>>>>>>>> them that you can't do that.
>>>>>>>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let
>>>>>> the schools
>>>>>>>> raise the kids.
>>>>>>>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and
>>>>>> rock, and
>>>>>>>> shake there heads all the time, and people see that and think we
>>>>>> are all
>>>>>>>> like that.
>>>>>>>> Or they think we count steps.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk
>>>>>> Mailing
>>>>>>>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>>>>>>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to
>>>>>> appear blind
>>>>>>>>> and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable
>>>>>> stresses, but
>>>>>>>>> man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>>>>>sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was)
>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>> I heard
>>>>>>>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and
>>>>>>>>>>so,
>>>>>>>>> I reckoned
>>>>>>>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>>>>>>>> guess maybe
>>>>>>>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough
>>>>>>>>>>sometimes;
>>>>>>>>> but, I
>>>>>>>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if
>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>> do so.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a
>>>>>>>>>>nice
>>>>>>>>> very long
>>>>>>>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>>>>>>>> don't go for
>>>>>>>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes
>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>> feels all
>>>>>>>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>>>>>>>> abroad you
>>>>>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>>>>>>>> your own land"
>>>>>>>>>>George Seferis
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>>>>>>>Cell:
>>>>>>>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk,
>>>>>>>>>>the lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>>>>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date
>>>>>>>>>>>sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Diane,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>>>>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>>>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes
>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>someone,
>>>>>>>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would
>>>>>>>>>>>touch
>>>>>>>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>>>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to
>>>>>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>>>>>but I
>>>>>>>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone
>>>>>>>>>>>else,
>>>>>>>>>>near me,
>>>>>>>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>>>>>>>you can tell
>>>>>>>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But,
>>>>>>>>>>>if
>>>>>>>>>>there's
>>>>>>>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>>>>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>>>>>>>they're looking at.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>complicated,
>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>>>>>>>would say
>>>>>>>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>>>>>>>touch on
>>>>>>>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>>>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>>>>>>>there, or as
>>>>>>>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
>>>>>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate
>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>>>>>that I know.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>>>>>>>learned,
>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>>>>>>touched.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>real
>>>>>>>>>>hard
>>>>>>>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>>>>>>>strangers by
>>>>>>>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>>>>>>>associate
>>>>>>>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>>>>>>>someone or
>>>>>>>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>>>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>>>>>>>had to
>>>>>>>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>remember.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do
>>>>>>>>>>>object
>>>>>>>>>>to is
>>>>>>>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>>>>>>>want to
>>>>>>>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
>>>>>>>>>>>are helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>>>>>like that.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>>>>>>>evening,
>>>>>>>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>>>>>>>liberties
>>>>>>>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>>>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>>>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission Alternative Dispute Resolutions
>>>>>>>>>>>Unit
>>>>>>>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>>>>>>>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended
>>>>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>>>for the
>>>>>>>>>>>individual or entity(ies)
>>>>>>>>>>>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>recipient, be
>>>>>>>>>>>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
>>>>>>>>>>>distribution,
>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>acting in reliance
>>>>>>>>>>>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If
>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
>>>>>>>>>>sender to
>>>>>>>>>>>arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>>>>>>>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of
>>>>>>>>>>>the candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would
>>>>>>>>>>>like to
>>>>>>>>>>ask a
>>>>>>>>>>>question.
>>>>>>>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>>>>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>>>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person
>>>>>>>>>>>who
>>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a
>>>>>>>>>>>restaurant
>>>>>>>>>>or for
>>>>>>>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>>>>>>>speaker
>>>>>>>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>>>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>>>>>>>to let
>>>>>>>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what
>>>>>>>>>>>I recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>>>>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>>>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>>>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>>>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>>>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>>>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>>>>>touched.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us
>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>>>>>touched,
>>>>>>>>>>>When
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>>>>>really
>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too
>>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>>>>>understand
>>>>>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>some situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to me to
>>>>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>touch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>easily
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>initiative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>attention
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Long
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>glad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>older
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>generation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> younger, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discover
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touching which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am often
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as odd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still there
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feels as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy4
>>>>>>>>>>2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba
>>>>>>>>>>%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>loss
>> e
>>> r
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
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>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>>for
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>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>>>>>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey
>>>>>>>>>>>.b
>>>>>>>>>>radley%
>>>>>>>>>>>40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>05/26/09
>>>>>>>>>>>08:53:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>for
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>>>>>>>>>>>ga
>>>>>>>>>>rtner%4
>>>>>>>>>>>0ag.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgrav
>>>>>>>>>>>es
>>>>>>>>>>%40icrc
>>>>>>>>>>>..in.gov
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>42
>>>>>>>>>>5%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>>>for blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>>>>>er
>>>>>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforet
>>>>>>>>>>j
>>>>>>>>> r%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosse
>>>>>>>>>>r
>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>>>> radley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb0
>>>>>> 06%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder
>>>> %40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ver
>>> izon.net
>>>
>>>
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>>> blindtlk:
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>>
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>>>
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>>> blindtlk:
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>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlin
>> k.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
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>>
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>> blindtlk:
>>
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>> hsi.com
>>
>>
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> sightbb.com
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.49/2149 - Release Date: 06/01/09
> 17:55:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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