[Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 36, Issue 10
Pat Gormley
kk3f at msn.com
Thu Jun 4 19:18:13 UTC 2009
I soldered point to point wiring near the end of the vacuum tube days and
I've also built a Heathkit hm102 wattmeter swr bridge. I've also soldered
audible tuning aid circuits across meters in tube transmitters so I could
tune them by pitch. When I built the Heathkit I used the access leads as a
heat synch and cut the leads off after they had a good electrical
connection. 73- pat gormley kk3f
----- Original Message -----
From: <blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 36, Issue 10
> Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Answer to: re: We've made a breakthrough! (Eric Calhoun)
> 2. Resolution Request (Eric Calhoun)
> 3. Re: soldering electronic parts (Joel Zimba)
> 4. Deaf blind query. (David R. Stayer)
> 5. Re: soldering electronic parts (David Evans)
> 6. Re: FW: Alternative Philosophies (gloria)
> 7. Re: Valuable Guidance (David Evans)
> 8. Re: Answer to: re: We've made a breakthrough! (Steve Jacobson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:02:19 -0500
> From: Eric Calhoun <eric at pmpmail.com>
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Answer to: re: We've made a breakthrough!
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Message-ID: <20090604140414.5C9142AF783 at node-lease1.smtp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I agree, Steve. You asked was role Jennifer Simpson plays. She is the
> complaint liaison, which means she takes complaints of phone-company
> misuse. One of my statements to the Better Business Bureau is the same
> statement I'm making here on Blindtlk: When a company makes T&C for
> everyone to follow, the FCC can, at any time, declare the agreement
> invalid
> (not current.)
>
> The last thing I'll say is that Christy has been prevented from any
> screen-reading purchases. And that is an issue for both Ms. Simpson and
> the Better Business Bureau to resolve.
>
> Eric
> --
>
> --
>
> Want to eee-lectrify your summer? Want to find out about future Major
> Leaguers, and independent Minor-Leaguers? The Baseball List is your
> answer! To join, please send an email, to eric at pmpmail.com, and put,
> "Eric, I'd like to join your baseball list," in the subject line!
>
> Eric from Los Angeles! Remember! It's not the size of the dog in the
> fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
>
> Eric from Los Angeles!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:02:56 -0500
> From: Eric Calhoun <eric at pmpmail.com>
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Resolution Request
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org, nfb-or at nfbnet.org
> Message-ID: <20090604140452.02F322AF682 at node-lease1.smtp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Would someone send me a copy of the resolution of keeping the Oregon
> School
> for the Blind open, to eric at pmpmail.com? I want to send it to the
> Governor. I will fight for you; they will not shut OSB down.
>
> Eric
> --
>
> --
>
> Want to eee-lectrify your summer? Want to find out about future Major
> Leaguers, and independent Minor-Leaguers? The Baseball List is your
> answer! To join, please send an email, to eric at pmpmail.com, and put,
> "Eric, I'd like to join your baseball list," in the subject line!
>
> Eric from Los Angeles! Remember! It's not the size of the dog in the
> fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
>
> Eric from Los Angeles!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:08:54 -0400
> From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <4A27D576.9090000 at cavtel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Thanks to everyone for all of these great responses! I will definitely
> find some of the clamps mentioned in one or two messages.
>
> I like the foot switch or soldering gun options. Also, having seen a
> few of the gas torch options, I think they might work well, as they're
> not hot very soon after deactivation.
>
>
> I will certainly not begin my experimentation with my vintage
> Jazzmaster. I'll use a few spare parts for experimentation first and
> then get more and more adventurous.
>
> Perhaps I'll blog about it or something... though possibly not via
> touch typing depending upon my success.
>
> Joel
>
>
> On 6/3/2009 10:37 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>> I've soldered on perf board using terminal strips, point-to-point
>> wiring. But this was back in the vacuum tube days. I gather that some of
>> the folks at the Smith-Kettlewell Eye Institute did some wiring on PC
>> board; look for an article by Tom Fowle in a QST of a year or two ago.
>> Smith-Kettlewell used to produce a journal called the Smith-Kettlewell
>> Technical File; I believe I have a complete set of these; I'll look for
>> the electronic copies.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> P.S. Why not send a message to nfb-hams-request at nfbcal.org with
>> "subscribe" in the subject and get on our NFB hams list and ask the
>> question?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joel Zimba"<jzimba at cavtel.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:07 AM
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
>>
>>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> If anyone out there can help me figure out how to solder wires and
>> electronic components out there sans eyes, I would be very greatful.
>> I'm not opposed to a bit of singing of my fingertips, but really, I
>> think such things should be kept to a minimum.
>>
>> I think it's just silly that I can't re-wire my guitar without help.
>>
>> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Joel
>>
>>
>> On 6/3/2009 11:02 AM, Sarah Baughn wrote:
>>
>>> This is definitely true, as in facial expressions.
>>> Sarah
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Wright"
>>> <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body
>>> language
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good morning all,
>>>> Although I wasn't born blind, I was born in a different country where
>>>> body language just like spoken language is a little different. I lost
>>>> my sight gradually over a period of several years and can understand
>>>> this topic of wanting to utilize body language to better enrich
>>>> communication. Since going blind, I've noticed that I use body
>>>> language more consciously than before going blind. For example, I
>>>> have to make an effort to verbalize more when talking to blind
>>>> individuals. I often find myself nodding my head or using hand
>>>> gestures to indicate objects, or emphasize ideas.
>>>> When talking to friends who are blind from birth, I've discussed the
>>>> importance of utilizing body language as a tool, but not to be
>>>> distracted by ones knowledge of it. In order to learn body language a
>>>> positive means of communication, it is important to ask questions of
>>>> family and other sighted peers. In my opinion, a certain amount of
>>>> body language is natural is doesn't need to be learned. Just my
>>>> thoughts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards:
>>>> Dave Wright
>>>> Work Phone: 651-636-5184 X803
>>>> Email:
>>>> dwrigh6 at gmail.com
>>>> WebPage:
>>>> http://www.knfbreader.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Cramer"
>>>> <tom.cramer1 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:33 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body
>>>> language
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> I've often wondered very similar things.
>>>>> I would love to get some answers to this as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio"
>>>>> <gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx>
>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:05 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body language
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert's message about false assumptions in the workplace reminded
>>>>>> me of the following incident:
>>>>>> The other day while attending a dinner with some coleagues one of
>>>>>> them asked "Are you able to eat on your own"? comment which angered
>>>>>> me, though I know the sighted person asked me with good intention
>>>>>> it still made me a bit angry to the point that I know still lots of
>>>>>> work needs to be done (especially in countries where the NFB isn't
>>>>>> well-known or even heard of); this is why I really enjoy the list;
>>>>>> ai always learn a lot from you guys.
>>>>>> This brings me to another question especially for those of you
>>>>>> blind from birth: How did you guys learn to use body language? I
>>>>>> sometimes get to thinking that aside from integrating more with the
>>>>>> sighted world, it saves our mouths from talking, especially while
>>>>>> eating or doing other things that at that moment doesn't permit us
>>>>>> to speak.
>>>>>> also, when saying no (shake of the head) is it from side to side by
>>>>>> moving the head from shoulder to shoulder or moving the head
>>>>>> clockwise or counterclockwise?
>>>>>> also what does srugging the shoulder signify? As you see we blind
>>>>>> from birth lose a lot of things by not being able to see. And when
>>>>>> I first introduced myself the RP I took it to mean Retinopathy of
>>>>>> Prematurity like in spanish, thus didn't think to clarify the
>>>>>> concept.
>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/tom.cramer1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%40cavtel.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:36:57 -0400
> From: "David R. Stayer" <davidandloristayer at verizon.net>
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Deaf blind query.
> To: "NFBnet Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>, "NFB
> Human Services" <humanser at nfbnet.org>, "NFB Senior Division"
> <nfb-seniors at nfbnet.org>, "Blind Talk NFB" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <5236235A8C114CB3AC5F6543B11AB234 at Ludwig>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi a colleague of mine has a difficult dilemma. He has a patient who has
> been deaf for thirty years with limited education. He read lips to
> communicate. A recent stroke has created visual loss. He is now deaf and
> blind. He does not know Braille. I have been consulted finding ways to
> communicate with him. He is 70 years old. Thank you for any suggestions.
> Each day is a precious gift.
> David R. Stayer, LCSW
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:47:02 -0400
> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <9AB2F68517934C1AA77D55896920EA7D at DAVID>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Dear Steve,
>
> I have been blind, due to RP, since the age of 16. I did learn about
> soldering when I still had more sight, but I have next to nothing left
> now,
> just light and shadow vision.
> I have developed my own ways of doing things and still use all manner of
> tools, just not as easily as I did when I had more vision, but that is
> where
> being inventive comes in and some trial and error experimenting.
> I have been a pro auto mechanic, a machinist, a certified welder and an
> engineer, all after becoming legally blind. Heck, I even drove for over
> twenty years after I was legally blind, so I have always done allot of
> things that I am not suppose to be able to do. I have not had to solder
> anything in sometime, but I use to wire up electronic items such as
> radios,
> RC controllers, servos, relays and such. I am not an electronics expert,
> but I know a little about allot of things.
> As a Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer, I had to work with engineers of
> other fields, meaning that I needed to learn enough about their work to
> help
> them select the best materials and manufacturing processes to make their
> product or parts. I also conducted testing of materials and finished
> parts
> to make sure they met the engineering specs.
> I have developed ways of doing things with less and less vision as I have
> needed to. My experience as a machinist and mechanic have helped me
> figure
> out ways of doing things by the use of jigs and fixtures that lets me make
> certain kinds of cuts or processes safely and over and over again where
> parts of the same size or shape are needed. I just do what I need to do
> to
> get the job done. Good luck with your project.
>
> David Evans, NFBF
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
>
>
>> Did you learn to solder when you had vision? This is amazing!!
>>
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Dear Joel,
>>>
>>> You must be very careful if you use the trick of placing a soldering gun
>>> straight on the electronic part and apply the heat until you just feel
>>> the
>>> solder melt.
>>> The heat will travel and can burn up the part.
>>> If you can, place a clamp or something like a pair of pliers between the
>>> soldering point and the next component down the line to stop the heat
>>> from
>>> traveling and burning up the part.
>>> How valuable is it to you? If you burn up a part are you going to be
>>> upset?
>>> If so, get someone to help you, at least to you know you have a
>>> techniques
>>> that works for you. That is better than making the situation worst and
>>> still having to send it out to be repaired at a greater cost.
>>> I like to try to do everything myself too, but I have learned not to let
>>> my
>>> pride stand in the way of getting the job done right.
>>> I can sometimes be stubborn, in trying to do everything myself and screw
>>> it
>>> up. I have therefore, learned to be more careful and think things out
>>> more
>>> and ask myself, "is this worth it," instead of just saying " I am going
>>> to
>>> fix it myself or break it." Sometimes learning can be painful and
>>> expensive. You need to be the judge.
>>> I do allot of arts and crafts and use all manner of power tools and have
>>> a
>>> fully equipped shop.
>>> I like to make things myself and have only light and shadow vision at
>>> this
>>> point in my life, so I am one who does like to do things myself.
>>> Woodworking, metal working, auto mechanics, electrical, plumbing and
>>> more.
>>> I even teach blind people how to do simple home repairs .
>>>
>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] soldering electronic parts
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joel,
>>>>
>>>> I have done some soldering during my life that at least has been good
>>>> enough to get me by. However, I readily admit that I do less of it now
>>>> because so many
>>>> components have gotten so small that it is not as easy as it once was.
>>>> How well you do with it a matter of how much it is worth to you and how
>>>> much you are willing
>>>> to practice and experiment.
>>>>
>>>> The common approach to soldering is to use a soldering iron that
>>>> remains
>>>> hot for the entire soldering session. Some blind persons do that, but
>>>> I
>>>> dare say most of us
>>>> do not. Usually it makes the most sense to find a soldering iron or
>>>> gun
>>>> that can be heated up after it has been positioned. My approach is to
>>>> mostly use a soldering
>>>> gun, placing it upon the terminal or wire that needs to be soldered,
>>>> take
>>>> the solder in my other hand and place the end on the terminal or wire
>>>> grasping the solder a
>>>> couple of inches back from the end, and then apply the heat. This
>>>> could
>>>> mean pressing a trigger, or possibly wiring a soldering gun through a
>>>> foot
>>>> peddle. Once the
>>>> connection is hot enough, you will both smell the solder and feel that
>>>> the
>>>> tip touching the connection is getting soft. You will learn over time
>>>> to
>>>> feed the melting end
>>>> of the solder onto the connection until you get the right amount and
>>>> then
>>>> widraw both the gun and the solder. It is important that the solder
>>>> and
>>>> the iron or gun touch
>>>> the connection and not each other. The best results will be achieved
>>>> by
>>>> having the gun heat up the connection so the connection is hot enough
>>>> to
>>>> melt the solder.
>>>>
>>>> There are several variables. First, you can get solder in different
>>>> gauges or diameters. The thicker the solder, the better you will be
>>>> able
>>>> to feel if it is positioned on
>>>> the connection, but the more likely you will get too much solder or
>>>> have
>>>> it go where you don't want it. Find a compromise that works by
>>>> experimenting. Some small
>>>> connections will require that you use a thin solder and you have to
>>>> live
>>>> with that. Some have fed thin solder through a thin metal tube so that
>>>> the tube can be used
>>>> to guide the solder to the connection.
>>>>
>>>> There are verious kinds of soldering irons and guns now. A Soldering
>>>> gun
>>>> has a small heating element mounted on two very heavy conductors. It
>>>> heats up and
>>>> cools fairly quickly. However, it is a high current low voltage
>>>> device,
>>>> and because of the high current, some say that a gun can dammage a
>>>> component because of
>>>> the strong electric fields. While I do not doubt this, it has never
>>>> happened to me, and this is not usually an issue when soldering
>>>> switches,
>>>> plugs or pickups as you
>>>> might deal with on a guitar. However, some cordless irons heat up
>>>> fairly
>>>> quickly and pose less of a risk. Also, it can be nice not to have to
>>>> worry about a cord. I do
>>>> not think I solder as quickly as most sighted people, though, so
>>>> consequently, I have found the battery life on a cordless iron to be
>>>> limiting and never living up to the
>>>> ads. There are also irons that you light. These stay hot but tend to
>>>> concentrate the heat so one can use them if one is careful. There are
>>>> tricks, too. If you wet
>>>> your finger tip and you touch quickly, the heat is discipated in the
>>>> water
>>>> and you won't burn your finger.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this will give you some ideas.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:07:13 -0400, Joel Zimba wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hey All,
>>>>
>>>>>If anyone out there can help me figure out how to solder wires and
>>>>>electronic components out there sans eyes, I would be very greatful.
>>>>>I'm not opposed to a bit of singing of my fingertips, but really, I
>>>>>think such things should be kept to a minimum.
>>>>
>>>>>I think it's just silly that I can't re-wire my guitar without help.
>>>>
>>>>>Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>>thanks,
>>>>
>>>>>Joel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 6/3/2009 11:02 AM, Sarah Baughn wrote:
>>>>>> This is definitely true, as in facial expressions.
>>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Wright"
>>>>>> <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body
>>>>>> language
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good morning all,
>>>>>>> Although I wasn't born blind, I was born in a different country
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> body language just like spoken language is a little different. I
>>>>>>> lost
>>>>>>> my sight gradually over a period of several years and can understand
>>>>>>> this topic of wanting to utilize body language to better enrich
>>>>>>> communication. Since going blind, I've noticed that I use body
>>>>>>> language more consciously than before going blind. For example, I
>>>>>>> have to make an effort to verbalize more when talking to blind
>>>>>>> individuals. I often find myself nodding my head or using hand
>>>>>>> gestures to indicate objects, or emphasize ideas.
>>>>>>> When talking to friends who are blind from birth, I've discussed the
>>>>>>> importance of utilizing body language as a tool, but not to be
>>>>>>> distracted by ones knowledge of it. In order to learn body language
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> positive means of communication, it is important to ask questions of
>>>>>>> family and other sighted peers. In my opinion, a certain amount of
>>>>>>> body language is natural is doesn't need to be learned. Just my
>>>>>>> thoughts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards:
>>>>>>> Dave Wright
>>>>>>> Work Phone: 651-636-5184 X803
>>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>>> dwrigh6 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> WebPage:
>>>>>>> http://www.knfbreader.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Cramer"
>>>>>>> <tom.cramer1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:33 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>> I've often wondered very similar things.
>>>>>>>> I would love to get some answers to this as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio"
>>>>>>>> <gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx>
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Other "wrong" assumptions;Learning body
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Robert's message about false assumptions in the workplace reminded
>>>>>>>>> me of the following incident:
>>>>>>>>> The other day while attending a dinner with some coleagues one of
>>>>>>>>> them asked "Are you able to eat on your own"? comment which
>>>>>>>>> angered
>>>>>>>>> me, though I know the sighted person asked me with good intention
>>>>>>>>> it still made me a bit angry to the point that I know still lots
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> work needs to be done (especially in countries where the NFB isn't
>>>>>>>>> well-known or even heard of); this is why I really enjoy the list;
>>>>>>>>> ai always learn a lot from you guys.
>>>>>>>>> This brings me to another question especially for those of you
>>>>>>>>> blind from birth: How did you guys learn to use body language? I
>>>>>>>>> sometimes get to thinking that aside from integrating more with
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> sighted world, it saves our mouths from talking, especially while
>>>>>>>>> eating or doing other things that at that moment doesn't permit us
>>>>>>>>> to speak.
>>>>>>>>> also, when saying no (shake of the head) is it from side to side
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> moving the head from shoulder to shoulder or moving the head
>>>>>>>>> clockwise or counterclockwise?
>>>>>>>>> also what does srugging the shoulder signify? As you see we blind
>>>>>>>>> from birth lose a lot of things by not being able to see. And when
>>>>>>>>> I first introduced myself the RP I took it to mean Retinopathy of
>>>>>>>>> Prematurity like in spanish, thus didn't think to clarify the
>>>>>>>>> concept.
>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/tom.cramer1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:47:18 -0700
> From: "gloria" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] FW: Alternative Philosophies
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <5A5D897E7ACD409B908B058A7E70B614 at homeea072beeeb>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> That has nothing to do with blindness.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Schwartz
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:01 AM
> To: 'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] FW: Alternative Philosophies
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Schwartz [mailto:sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:25 PM
> To: 'Marion & Martin'; 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [Blindtlk] Alternative Philosophies
>
> Psychotherapy is not a spiritual undertaking. My colleagues and I
> practice
> empirically based paradigms. You may have heard this term. It refers to
> employing techniques which have proven to be effective based on rigorous,
> time consuming study employing the scientific method. Perhaps you are
> familiar with that term. You know, Newton, Galileo, the Curies, Jonas
> Salk,
> Watson and Crick and other such fearful practitioners of main stream
> science. What is cowardly and dangerous is treating patients with
> mystical,
> esoteric fantasies. If your techniques are valid, put them to the test.
> Spare your susceptible patients to this quackery.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:45 PM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Alternative Philosophies
>
> Trish,
> As a practitioner of Metaphysics, as well as a professional in the
> field
>
> of Mental Health Counseling with a specialty in Hypnotherapy, as well as a
> facilitator of past life regression, , I completely understand the Law of
> Mind-Action and Chakra energy. Some in the more "mainstream" may ridicule
> such spiritual beliefs, but their ignorance is only their unwillingness to
> accept alternative views. Some think that their limited view of the world
> and of spirituality is the only Truth and have been taught to fear an
> alternative explanation because it threatens those paradigns ability to
> control their believers. Such religious intolerance creates the
> persecution
> that has been waged in the past to suppress and oppress others. The
> liberating philosophy that we are in control of our destinies and that the
> ultimate goal can be nothing less than the full realization of the
> expanded
> consciousness takes the control away from the fearmongers who limit the
> Universe by limitedly defining the Creator. In the words of a great
> philosopher, "God created man in its own image and then man returned the
> favor!"
>
> fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> Well! See ms a lot has transpired since I last "saw you guys!"
>> Bad energy, people! Bad energy!
>> Somebody's got a blockage!
>> Ok. I'm done. . . I'm going to go and grow up now. And, since I get to
>> come back, I'll talk to you soon (TTYS)
>> Thanks, to all, for your back up.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 20:49:35 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>I'm probably old enough to be your father or grandfather. You
>> sound like a
>>>drugged out adolescent with your energy pathways, meridians and
>> finally,
>>>"perhaps my energy didn't reach your ears". Your energy wouldn't
>> reach my
>>>ears if you were in the house next to mine. Next, you'll be
>> talking about
>>>astrological signs. Grow up you foolish child.
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:07 PM
>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>Hey, Schwartz!
>>> #1. When did I "assume that all credible knowledge lies with in
>>>Western culture.?"
>>>#2. I "misapplied the vast body of Eastern wisdom", how?"
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but no where did I see myself
>>>disrespectful to Eastern, or Western culture.
>>> Being ignorant of customs, I have great respect for Eastern
>>>wisdom. Just brushing the surface, through Massage Therapy
>>>training was one of the most interesting, complicated, and
>>>difficult things I've ever done.
>>> Miss. chauvinistic, childish, and ignorant hear, never made any
>>>such claim. I mentioned the words touch, intension, energy, and
>>>meridian. So. Because you've never heard of a meridian, I don't
>>>know what I'm talking about?
>>> I'd be willing to bet there's an Eastern word for things like
>>>your defensive name calling. In Western terms, it's called Get a
>>>grip!
>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:18:49 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>It is chauvinistic to assume that all credible knowledge resides
>>>within
>>>>Western culture. It is childish and ignorant to misapply the
>>>vast body of
>>>>Eastern wisdom.
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:29 PM
>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>Excuse me. Perhaps my words touched your ears, and you've
>>>>misunderstood them? Or, perhaps I wasn't quite following the
>>>>thread? It's possible. I make mistakes from time to time, too.
>>>>No worries!
>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 17:25:41 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor
>>>>do you.
>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>This applied to the intension of touch.
>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>And just what does this have to do with touching or being
>>>>>touched? Can you
>>>>>>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy
>>>>>pathway?
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian. There are energy
>>>>>>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>>>>>>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.
>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"
>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>Behalf Of trishs
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>>>>>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>>>>>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!" Or
>>>>>>>"Could you do that again?" I feel as though I can speak for most
>>>>>>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>>>>>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more. There are
>>>>>>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>>>>>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>>>>>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>>>>>>someone's touch. It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>>>>>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>>>>>>comfort level.
>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>>>being touched.
>>
>>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>>touched, When
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>>really don't
>>>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>>understand this
>>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 27
>>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaching
>>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural
>>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>>> still there
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
>>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation
>>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for blindtlk:
>>
>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%
>>>>>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>---------------
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>>>>>radley%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>>deeley%40insightbb.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>---------------
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>05/26/09
>>>>>>>>08:53:00
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>schwartz%40
>>>>>>>sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for
>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>schwartz%40
>>>>>>sbcglobal.net
>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for
>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>schwartz%40
>>>>>sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for
>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>schwartz%40
>>>>sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>%40metrocast.net
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>>>blindtlk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>> schwartz%40
>>>sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>> %40metrocast.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ver
> izon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.schwartz%40
> sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/fairyfoot%40webban
> d.com
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.52/2152 - Release Date: 06/03/09
> 05:53:00
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 12:01:06 -0400
> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Valuable Guidance
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <D05C246228B544E6BFDDBDAEA47CAC9F at DAVID>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> Welcome to the list Sweetie,
>
> I can not answer your question, but may be someone else can. There is a
> list for Blind accessible cell phones and someone there maybe able to
> advise
> you.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> David Evans, NFBF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sweety.bhalla" <sweety.bhalla at ifciltd.com>
> To: <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:12 AM
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Valuable Guidance
>
>
>> Hi friends,
>> It is my first mail to the group. I want to know that the Samsung I780 is
>> supported by Mobile Speak Pocket? I770 is listed, but is not available in
>> India now.
>> Thanks and regards
>>
>> (Sweety Bhalla)
>> Assistant Manager (Compliance)
>> IFCI LTD
>> New Delhi India
>> E-Mail: sweety.bhalla at ifciltd.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/drevans%40bellsouth.net
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.52/2153 - Release Date: 06/03/09
> 18:00:00
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:49:45 -0500
> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Answer to: re: We've made a breakthrough!
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <auto-000014838220 at mailback2.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Eric,
>
> What I meant is what role does Jennifer Simpson play in this case if the
> problem with the phone company is not related to disability? It just
> seems like we're a little all
> over the place on this. Care needs to be taken to sort out the problems
> and figure out who can help solve which problems most effectively,
> especially since
> experiences have apparently not been the same with the same phone company.
> Obviously, I want to see her get the problem resolved.
> .
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:02:19 -0500, Eric Calhoun wrote:
>
>>I agree, Steve. You asked was role Jennifer Simpson plays. She is the
>>complaint liaison, which means she takes complaints of phone-company
>>misuse. One of my statements to the Better Business Bureau is the same
>>statement I'm making here on Blindtlk: When a company makes T&C for
>>everyone to follow, the FCC can, at any time, declare the agreement
>>invalid
>>(not current.)
>
>>The last thing I'll say is that Christy has been prevented from any
>>screen-reading purchases. And that is an issue for both Ms. Simpson and
>>the Better Business Bureau to resolve.
>
>>Eric
>>--
>
>>--
>
>>Want to eee-lectrify your summer? Want to find out about future Major
>>Leaguers, and independent Minor-Leaguers? The Baseball List is your
>>answer! To join, please send an email, to eric at pmpmail.com, and put,
>>"Eric, I'd like to join your baseball list," in the subject line!
>
>>Eric from Los Angeles! Remember! It's not the size of the dog in the
>>fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
>
>>Eric from Los Angeles!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 36, Issue 10
> ****************************************
>
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