[Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind

Sat Jun 13 16:36:29 UTC 2009

Don, I think that would be the best approach to have a school like the one 
in Washington you mentioned.  I attended a school for the blind for the 
first six years and then moved to a public school.  I had no difficulties 
because I had wonderful resource teachers in the Chicago area.  This was in 
1968 when we moved from Kentucky to Chicago.  I had many behavioral problems 
at the Kentucky School for the blind.  When I moved to a public school, 
these problems were corrected by, I think, pier pressure.  I wanted to fit 
in with the sighted kids so I stopped my old behavior.  However, I have no 
contact with other blind students for six years.  For me, it probably helped 
me to leave KSB, however, I'm certain some of my blindness skills suffered.
I know this is a tremendous loss for you and it is very difficult to accept. 
Blind students do need a place to come and work on their blindness skills 
and associate with other blind children.
Thanks,

Steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Mitchell" <donmi at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind

>I am a graduate of the Oregon School for the Blind. I completed my 
>education
> there in 1966. I then went on to attend high in Klamath Falls Oregon. I
> consider my time spent at the school the best years of my educational 
> life.
> Considering the family background of myself and many of my school mates 
> the
> school was a necessary rescue mission. I was a partially sighted student
> who, eventually, was taught braille. I went on to loose my residual vision
> at the age of 35 At that time the population of students at the school in
> Oregon averaged near 100 students. We had two paraplegic students and
> several students with mild mental problems. I know this is not the best
> argument for not closing the school, but it was my home, and I grieve it's
> loss. I think a mix of residential school and main streaming is the best
> answer. I think the Washington State School for the Blind has a good
> moderate approach. The school has an open door policy students who are in
> public school can come for specialized training when they need it and 
> attend
> public school when they are prepared. I agree with so much that is stated
> below, and am hart broken that the school is closing. The OSB alumni is
> having an alumni reunion this weekend in Salem Oregon. I am not attending
> because It is painful to say good by to the school.
>
> Don Mitchell
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>
>
>> Yes, I hope the same thing, Mike, because I was in the Washington State
>> School for the Blind for one year, and I have to say that my education
>> suffered because they catered too much to the multiply handicapped,
>> although I have heard that they are getting better about educating the
>> kids who are only blind.  The thing is, I had a lot of friends in summer
>> school too, but I also had a roommate with whom I was friends, and my mom
>> started pointing out, after a while, that I was starting to act like her,
>> picking up her iabits, and it wasn't a good thing, and so I stopped 
>> acting
>> like that, wanting to be thought of as a competent, smart blind person 
>> who
>> didn't do those silly things, and, maybe it's a shame to say this, 
>> because
>> it may come off a little shallow, but I stopped hanging around with her
>> for that reason.
>> Sarah
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Mike Sivill" <mike.sivill at viewplus.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>
>>
>>>I agree with you Sarah. I was in mainstream school for my entire 
>>>education
>>> and had a horrible social experience but the blind school was not an
>>> option
>>> academically at all. Although the mainstream teachers were not much
>>> better
>>> (luckily I had a good VI teacher ) but I would have had amuch better
>>> experience academically with teachers trained to teach a blind student
>>> and a
>>> better social experience with other blind kids. I always had lots of
>>> friends
>>> at the blind summer camps and events and I believe that the people who
>>> say
>>> kids have to attend mainstream schools in order to learn to act normal
>>> are
>>> mostly sighted and don't know what they're talking about. Other blind
>>> kids
>>> are just as harsh about telling someone who has blindisms that they are
>>> being idiotic while sighted peers usually just figure all blind people 
>>> do
>>> that type of thing and they shouldn't be mean about it.
>>> I really hope that this closure of OSB spreads and helps start a real
>>> change
>>> in the blind school's role, from being a dumping ground for
>>> multi-disabled
>>> and troubled blind kids.
>>> Mike
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Sarah Baughn
>>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 7:55 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>>
>>> Steve, that's my thought as well.  You see, there are so many
>>> multihandicapped students in the schools for the blind these days that
>>> those
>>>
>>> of us who are only blind suffer in terms of our education.
>>> Sarah
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> David:  Don't you think that the best and brightest blind students were
>>>> leaving schools for the blind during the past 30 years?  Are schools 
>>>> for
>>>> the blind still able to accomplish their missions with all of the multi
>>>> disabled students now attending the schools??  I'm not certain how
>>>> effective the schools can be under the present circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 5:04 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some facts that need to be stressed here.
>>>>> Back before ww-2, most blind children were sent to a residential
>>>>> school,
>>>>> where they were educated and taught all of the skills of blindness
>>>>> including
>>>>> some kind of trade skills.
>>>>> Regardless of the amount of vision they had, they were taught Braille
>>>>> as
>>>>> well as print , if they had any vision at all and something like 84% 
>>>>> of
>>>>> all
>>>>> blind students were literate in Braille, print or both.
>>>>> After WW-2, children were mainstreamed into the Public schools, mostly
>>>>> because some people felt that they would have better social skills and
>>>>> because more parents wanted to keep their children closer to home
>>>>> instead
>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> sending them off to a remote school some where.
>>>>> There are always some blind children who have the need to attend a
>>>>> residential school instead of getting what they can from the Public
>>>>> school
>>>>> system, especially Deaf-Blind and those with additional disabilities 
>>>>> as
>>>>> examples.
>>>>> Since the advent of mainstreaming into the Public schools, literacy in
>>>>> general and Braille literacy specifically have declined tremendously.
>>>>> Today
>>>>> Braille literacy is only 8 to 9% and general literacy is not as high 
>>>>> as
>>>>> it
>>>>> was, even with the increase in the numbers of blind children alive
>>>>> today.
>>>>> Along with mainstreaming, into the Public schools, real education
>>>>> declined
>>>>> sharply and so has employment for the Blind.  Employment has always
>>>>> been
>>>>> difficult at best for the Blind, but the lack of teachers who could
>>>>> teach
>>>>> Braille and understood how to work with blind students has been
>>>>> systematically eliminated and discouraged in the Public schools and in
>>>>> many
>>>>> of the rehab agencies because the people in charge held low
>>>>> expectations
>>>>> of
>>>>> the blind and had the attitude," they are blind and can't do anything
>>>>> anyway
>>>>> so why bother teaching them."
>>>>> Public school districts generally lump all of their "special needs"
>>>>> students
>>>>> together with an overworked and underserved teacher who is given poor
>>>>> or
>>>>> no
>>>>> resources to provide the specialized training that is needed for their
>>>>> students who have a wide variety of disabilities and the ones that act
>>>>> up
>>>>> and are the most disrupted usually get most of their attention.
>>>>> The teaching of Braille has been discouraged by every fantasy
>>>>> imaginable.
>>>>> I was fed the same old lines myself, for years, that Braille was "old
>>>>> fashion," "bulky and hard to learn and that all the new technologies
>>>>> were
>>>>> going to replace it.  I bought into this idea until I was exposed to
>>>>> the
>>>>> outstanding examples I found in the NFB.  It changed my belief and
>>>>> attitudes
>>>>> and at the age of 49, I taught myself Braille with the help of the
>>>>> Hadley
>>>>> School for the Blind.  I learned and was using Grade One Braille for
>>>>> all
>>>>> my
>>>>> personal written communication in just 3 weeks and learned how to use 
>>>>> a
>>>>> slate and stylist, which I carry everywhere with me now.  "
>>>>> I make good use of technology, but I have also learned that as long as
>>>>> the
>>>>> sighted still use paper and pen to write things down and carry them
>>>>> with
>>>>> them; there will be a place for Braille in the hands of the Blind.
>>>>> It is a well known axiom among the Blind that 96% of all working Blind
>>>>> People know and use Braille in their work and their lives.
>>>>> Something else that the residential schools did was they taught
>>>>> employable
>>>>> skills to the Blind, i,e, chair caning, piano tuning, sewing,
>>>>> weaving,and
>>>>> other such manual skills that the Blind could always sell as personal
>>>>> services.
>>>>> The Blind of China invented the first trade unions back 2,000 years
>>>>> before
>>>>> the birth of Christ to set prices, standards and to regulate Blind
>>>>> trades
>>>>> that included basket weaving, pottery, massage and even prostitution,
>>>>> which
>>>>> were considered common Blind trades back then.
>>>>> The parents of Blind children have had to fight alone with the Public
>>>>> schools systems to get them to provide the education and help that
>>>>> their
>>>>> children need and have to keep fighting the entire time their child is
>>>>> in
>>>>> school for what the Law says is their Right to a Free and Equal
>>>>> Education
>>>>> that evidence shows they are not getting in Public school.
>>>>> They use excuses such as "well, the child has too much vision to be
>>>>> taught
>>>>> Braille, inspire of the fact that maybe the child has RP and will lose
>>>>> their
>>>>> ability to read or even see print as a young adult, as happened to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a former resident of Roseburg Oregon, now living in Florida, I can
>>>>> say
>>>>> that the legislature of the State of Oregon does not care about the
>>>>> lives
>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> Blind children and likely has political motives behind their vote to
>>>>> close
>>>>> the Oregon School for the Blind.
>>>>> They have wanted that land for some time and de-funding the school is
>>>>> the
>>>>> way they intend to kill it and steal the land and the birth right of
>>>>> all
>>>>> Blind  children in their State.  This whole thing Bothers me, the 
>>>>> whole
>>>>> situation stinks and I hope the smell comes back to haunt each and
>>>>> every
>>>>> one
>>>>> of these legislators who voted to close this school.
>>>>> Shame on them and a pox on their House for doing this unnecessary and
>>>>> despicable act of murdering the School for the Blind of Oregon.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Evans, NFBF
>>>>> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
>>>>> Builder  of the Lunar Rovers and the IF-117 Stealth Fighter
>>>>> Legally blind since age 16 due to RP.
>>>>> Without a good education they doom blind children to a life of
>>>>> idealness
>>>>> and
>>>>> little potential.
>>>>> Lucky for me, I got a good education and have done many things people
>>>>> thought impossible.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:54 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You are maintaining a complete campus for  31 students.  There is
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> known as cost efficiency.  I believe the days for schools for the
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> just about over.  In the 1960's, the Kentucky School for the Blind 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> census of 150 or more.  Now, there are very few blind students on the
>>>>>> campus.  In the day, KSB had one of the most respected wrestling 
>>>>>> teams
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the state of Kentucky.  Those days seem to be gone, sadly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:39 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Oregon votes to close school for the blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full time students?  31.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Served each year in some capacity?  About 400.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Twenty years ago?  I don't know, it was a lot more-but Oregon has
>>>>>>> changed its laws in the interim to forbid placement at the school
>>>>>>> unless there is no other placement possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The school is being closed for students that are only allowed to be
>>>>>>> there because there is no other placement possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first argument to close the school was that the buildings needed
>>>>>>> substantial maintenance, including seismic upgrades.  We countered
>>>>>>> this by pointing out that funding for this maintenance has been
>>>>>>> secured time and again, but the Oregon legislature has consistently
>>>>>>> redirected it over the past 20 years to efforts to close or relocate
>>>>>>> the school, rather than maintain it.  Consistently, as in every
>>>>>>> single time.  They dropped that argument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The next argument was that enrollment was down and the cost per
>>>>>>> student was extremely high.  They argued that Least Restrictive
>>>>>>> Environment forbade placement at the school.  It would save money,
>>>>>>> too!  We gave the correct definition of LRE and pointed out that
>>>>>>> counting costs for 400 and dividing them by 31 is outright 
>>>>>>> deception.
>>>>>>> We also pointed out how much closing the school would cost 
>>>>>>> elsewhere.
>>>>>>> They mostly dropped that argument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The following argument was an empassioned plea to save these poor
>>>>>>> children from a life of seclusion.  Those poor children came and 
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>> the legislature that they were not secluded, that they had no other
>>>>>>> chance at the same education anywhere else in Oregon, and that they
>>>>>>> needed this school.  Another argument down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finally, the legislature abandoned any pretense of arguing that this
>>>>>>> was "for the sake of the children" because we'd proven it was not.
>>>>>>> They stopped pretending that it would save money, because it would
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The effort to close the school was put forward by Oregon Democrats,
>>>>>>> and they maintain a strong majority in the Oregon legislature.  So
>>>>>>> they crammed it through with little public comment, offering
>>>>>>> minimally required time for an amendment to be published before it
>>>>>>> was voted on (without public comment, of course), and then they
>>>>>>> pulled every shenanigan they could to try and escape public notice,
>>>>>>> since the public almost unanimously opposed this bill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 07:18:26AM -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote:
>>>>>>>> How many blind children were currently enrolled in the school in
>>>>>>>> 2008?
>>>>>>>> How many blind students did the school have 20 years ago?
>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 06/11/09
>>>>>> 05:53:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/drevans%40bellsout
>>> h.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release Date:
>>>>> 06/11/09
>>>>> 05:53:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.64/2170 - Release Date:
>>>> 06/11/09
>>>
>>>> 17:59:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcas
>>> t.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/mike.sivill%40view
>>> plus.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/donmi%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.65/2171 - Release Date: 06/12/09 
05:55:00