[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Tue May 26 23:47:18 UTC 2009
Using your power!
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:15:26 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>Hey Cindy,
>It is interesting. I have also had the embarrassing situation of
not
>realizing someone is talking to me, or assuming wrongly that they
were.
>This happens often because of the way our cafeteria lines are
laid out
>here at work.
>It's often difficult to know whether everyone in front of me has
been
>waited on or not, because you have some folks still there waiting
for
>their food, while another person is taking orders. It gets
tricky. I
>usually just ask, "are you ready for me?"
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>"IT is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:22 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>Diane,
>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
don't mind
>if
>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes to
>someone,
>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
a
>shoulder
>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to me,
but I
>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
near
>me,
>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
you can
>tell
>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
there's
>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
specifically,
>who
>they're looking at.
>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>Cindy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>HI Paul,
>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated,
at
>least where I am concerned.
>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
would say
>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
touch on
>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
there, or as
>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
have
>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
don't
>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
people
>that I know.
>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
learned,
>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
touched.
>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
hard
>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
strangers by
>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
associate
>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
someone or
>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
shoulder
>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and
the
>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
had to
>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
to
>remember.
>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
to is
>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
want to
>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
something
>like that.
>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
evening,
>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
liberties
>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>appreciate it either.
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>"IT is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
for the
>individual or entity(ies)
>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
recipient, be
>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
or
>acting in reliance
>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
have
>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
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>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
ask a
>question.
>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
Obviously,
>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who
is
>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
or for
>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
speaker
>is addressing the person who is blind.
>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
to let
>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
during a
>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
embarrassing a
>times.
>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>Paul Weingartner
>Making the Cross Accessible
>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>www.blind.ag.org
>www.blindonline.ag.org
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
being
>touched.
>Steve
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>putting
>> there hands on us.
>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
touched,
>When
>> we
>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
this.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>don't
>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
really
>don't
>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>spacial
>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
during
>a
>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
understand
>this
>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
trust.
>>> \
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
be
>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>> sighted
>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>> someone
>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>> you are
>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>> It's not
>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>> means of
>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>> yurself to
>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>> your
>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>> donw with
>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>> early
>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>> there and
>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>> to the
>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>> was
>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>> ago I
>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>> handing as
>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>> someone
>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>> Maybe
>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>> my Asian
>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>> very
>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>Joel
>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>> My vision
>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>> and did not
>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>> was often
>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>> out to shake
>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>> this problem
>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>> that the
>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>> I have had
>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>> in such
>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>> what is
>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>> they stand to
>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>> is common
>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>> has led you to
>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>> had
>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>> would not do
>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>> loses their
>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>> surprised
>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>> something others can
>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>> performing these
>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>> I am walking
>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>> someone, I
>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>> or
>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>> When do you do
>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>> experienced a
>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>> still there
>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>> something
>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>> and touch my
>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>> unusual.
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>> on my own
>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>> guys,
>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>> arm of the
>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>> to do this
>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>> by this
>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>> still there?
>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>> if they're
>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>> in that you
>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>> happened to
>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>> to shake if
>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>> about
>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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