[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Wed May 27 01:29:40 UTC 2009

Also when someone is on the phone, and you think they are speaking to you.
I'm shore we all get that.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> Diane,
>
> I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others.  But, I don't mind 
> if
> someone touches my arm or wants a hug.  I think, when it comes to someone,
> like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch a 
> shoulder
> or my hand.  There have been times when someone is talking to me, but I
> didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else, near me,
> and I respond.  That's sometimes difficult.  Most of the time, you can 
> tell
> if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking.  But, if there's
> someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know, specifically, who
> they're looking at.
>
> This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>
> Cindy
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
> HI Paul,
>
> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
> least where I am concerned.
>
> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would say
> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light touch on
> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or as
> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>
> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who have
> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite problem.
> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with people
> that I know.
>
> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being touched.
>
> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to strangers by
> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone or
> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or shoulder
> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
> remember.
>
> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object to is
> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want to
> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
> like that.
>
> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the evening,
> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take liberties
> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
> appreciate it either.
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "IT is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to ask a
> question.
> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.  Obviously,
> that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or for
> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the speaker
> is addressing the person who is blind.
> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to let
> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during a
> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right embarrassing a
> times.
> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>
>
> Paul Weingartner
> Making the Cross Accessible
> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
> www.blind.ag.org
> www.blindonline.ag.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate being
> touched.
>
> Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
> putting
>> there hands on us.
>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
> When
>> we
>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
> don't
>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
> don't
>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
> spacial
>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close during
> a
>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who understand
> this
>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they trust.
>>> \
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>> sighted
>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>> someone
>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>> you are
>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>
>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>> It's not
>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>> means of
>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>> yurself to
>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>> your
>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>
>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>> donw with
>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>
>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>> early
>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>> there and
>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>> to the
>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>> was
>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>> ago I
>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>> handing as
>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>> someone
>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>> Maybe
>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>
>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>> my Asian
>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>> very
>>>>>greatful.
>>>>
>>>>>Joel
>>>>
>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>> My vision
>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>> and did not
>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>> was often
>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>> out to shake
>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>> this problem
>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>> that the
>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>> I have had
>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>> in such
>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>> what is
>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>> they stand to
>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>> is common
>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>> has led you to
>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>> had
>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>> would not do
>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>> loses their
>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>> surprised
>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>> something others can
>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>> performing these
>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>> I am walking
>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>> someone, I
>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>> or
>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>
>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>
>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>> When do you do
>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>> experienced a
>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>> away.  Now, if
>>>>
>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>> still there
>>>>
>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>> something
>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>> and touch my
>>>>
>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>> unusual.
>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>> on my own
>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>> guys,
>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>> arm of the
>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>> to do this
>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>> by this
>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>> still there?
>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>> if they're
>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>> in that you
>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>> happened to
>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>> to shake if
>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>> about
>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>
>>>>
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