[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Wed May 27 02:51:35 UTC 2009
There is much in appearing confident. I'm wondering if other
blind people have felt as I have, like I'm a "creep magnet."
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:26:42 -0600
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>I got into a fist fight with a guy at the bus station here about
4 months
>ago.
>I was asking a bus driver a question, a guy kept patting me on
the sholder.
>I asked him very nice about 3 times to please quit touching me.
>He kept on doing It.
>I had to snap at him after a while, then he followed me to my bus
cussing at
>me.
>He came on my bus and said that he was going to punch me in my
head, that's
>when I did that to him.
>Everyone was saying that He should have stopped when I asked him
to.
>But that made me and all blind people look like jerks, but enough
is enough.
>Even the gard at the station told him to not put his hands on
people.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> HI Paul,
>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
complicated, at
>> least where I am concerned.
>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
would say
>> it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
touch on
>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
there, or as
>> if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
who have
>> said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite
problem.
>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
don't
>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
people
>> that I know.
>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
learned,
>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
touched.
>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
hard
>> time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
strangers by
>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
associate
>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
someone or
>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
shoulder
>> when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
and the
>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
had to
>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
to
>> remember.
>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
to is
>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
want to
>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
are
>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
something
>> like that.
>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
evening,
>> and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
liberties
>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>> appreciate it either.
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>> "IT is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>> candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
ask a
>> question.
>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
Obviously,
>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person
who is
>> blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
or for
>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
speaker
>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
to let
>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>> recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
during a
>> conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
embarrassing a
>> times.
>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>> Paul Weingartner
>> Making the Cross Accessible
>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>> P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>> www.blind.ag.org
>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
being
>> touched.
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>> putting
>>> there hands on us.
>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
touched,
>> When
>>> we
>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
this.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>> don't
>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
really
>> don't
>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>> spacial
>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
during
>> a
>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
understand
>> this
>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
trust.
>>>> \
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
be
>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>> you are
>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>> means of
>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>> your
>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>> early
>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>> there and
>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>> to the
>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>> was
>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>> very
>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>> was often
>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>> that the
>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>> in such
>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>> what is
>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>> is common
>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>> had
>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>> or
>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>> still there
>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>> something
>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>> by this
>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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