[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
Gary Wunder
gwunder at earthlink.net
Thu May 28 18:49:04 UTC 2009
Perhaps my experience is not commonly shared, but there are situations in
which I do count steps. It is helpful to me to know that my hotel room is 17
steps from the beginning of the corridor. I've gotten to where I can count
them in the back of my mind and still carry on a conversation or think about
something else of importance while I'm doing it. The step counting technique
is not something I would like to try to use if I was 150 steps away from my
desired location, but I think there are times when a step count gives me
information, where no other landmarks exist.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
> Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first grade to
> count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being taught to
> use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it when people
> think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason that one of the
> people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count steps is that
> they didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because they weren't
> exposed to blind people before me, as I was the only blind person in the
> school.
> Sarah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools never told
>> them that you can't do that.
>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let the schools
>> raise the kids.
>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and rock,
>> and shake there heads all the time, and people see that and think we are
>> all like that.
>> Or they think we count steps.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing
>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to appear blind
>>> and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable stresses,
>>> but man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>>
>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>> being
>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was) and
>>> I heard
>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and so,
>>> I reckoned
>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>> guess maybe
>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough sometimes;
>>> but, I
>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if you
>>> do so.
>>>
>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a nice
>>> very long
>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>> don't go for
>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes and
>>> feels all
>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>
>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>> abroad you
>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>> your own land"
>>>>George Seferis
>>>
>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>Cell:
>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>e-mail:
>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk, the
>>>>lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>Diane,
>>>
>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes to
>>>>someone,
>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to me,
>>>>but I
>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
>>>>near me,
>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>you can tell
>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
>>>>there's
>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>they're looking at.
>>>
>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>
>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>
>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated,
>>>>at
>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>
>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>would say
>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>touch on
>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>there, or as
>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>
>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
>>>>have
>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>don't
>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>>>>people
>>>>>that I know.
>>>
>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>learned,
>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>touched.
>>>
>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>>>>hard
>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>strangers by
>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>associate
>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>someone or
>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>shoulder
>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and
>>>>the
>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>had to
>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>to
>>>>>remember.
>>>
>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
>>>>to is
>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>want to
>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>something
>>>>>like that.
>>>
>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>evening,
>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>liberties
>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>
>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>
>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
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>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
>>>>ask a
>>>>>question.
>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who
>>>>is
>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>>>>or for
>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>speaker
>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>to let
>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>during a
>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>times.
>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>being
>>>>>touched.
>>>
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>putting
>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>touched,
>>>>>When
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>this.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>don't
>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>really
>>>>>don't
>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>>>>during
>>>>>a
>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>understand
>>>>>this
>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>trust.
>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>be
>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>> still there
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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