[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Mike Sivill mike.sivill at viewplus.com
Thu May 28 19:18:12 UTC 2009 

Yes! I hate "where are you trying to go" too. It's like a blind person would
never be able to get anywhere so what are you doing? 
Lol
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Sarah Baughn
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:30 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Oh, yeah, I hate it when people tell you things like "over there", even 
after you've told them that you can't see where they're pointing.  Another 
thing I hate is when people ask me where I'm trying to go.  It's like, uh, 
hello, I'm not trying to go anywhere, I'm actually going there.  I don't 
know, the wording just bugs me.
Sarah
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> Diane,
> This woman at the bus stop is clearly concerned about your welfare and
> trying to be helpful.  If it is a situation where she can be of 
> assistance,
> I suggest that you be assertively courteous and instruct  her on how she
> could help in a way that would be comfortable for both of You.  (See my
> earlier post about the arm pullers).  If you absolutely don't need any 
> help
> from her, I suggest that you tell her so in a nice way, acknowledging  her
> kind desire to help you and thanking her for it.
>
> Changing the topic a bit here.  There's the comical routine where someone 
> is
> facing you and wanting to give you directions.  They will tell you to turn
> right without realizing that their right is your left.  Amazing how often
> this happens.  They can't all be dummies.  I think that they just get
> confused or sort of choke up.  The ones who really drive me nuts are the
> folks who tell you" it's right over there", presumably pointing in a 
> certain
> direction.  These jerks make me really angry.  The lack of empathy is
> appalling.  I think that they just don't want to be bothered.  Their tone 
> of
> voice usually  reflects this.
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:55 AM
> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
> Have you told the lady at the bus stop that you don't appreciate her
> interference?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> HI Paul,
>>
>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated, at
>> least where I am concerned.
>>
>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I would say
>> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light touch on
>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't there, or as
>> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>>
>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who have
>> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite problem.
>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really don't
>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with people
>> that I know.
>>
>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have learned,
>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being touched.
>>
>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real hard
>> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to strangers by
>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or associate
>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug someone or
>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or shoulder
>> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and the
>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have had to
>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy to
>> remember.
>>
>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object to is
>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who want to
>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or something
>> like that.
>>
>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the evening,
>> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take liberties
>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>> appreciate it either.
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "IT is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>>
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to ask a
>> question.
>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.  Obviously,
>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person who is
>> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant or for
>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the speaker
>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch to let
>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling during a
>> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right embarrassing a
>> times.
>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>
>>
>> Paul Weingartner
>> Making the Cross Accessible
>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
>> www.blind.ag.org
>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate being
>> touched.
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>> putting
>>> there hands on us.
>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be touched,
>> When
>>> we
>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like this.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>> don't
>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I really
>> don't
>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>> spacial
>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close during
>> a
>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who understand
>> this
>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they trust.
>>>> \
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to be
>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>> you are
>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>> means of
>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>> your
>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>
>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>
>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>> early
>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>> there and
>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>> to the
>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>> was
>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>> very
>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>> was often
>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>> that the
>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>> in such
>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>> what is
>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>> is common
>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>> had
>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>> or
>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>
>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>> away.  Now, if
>>>>>
>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>> still there
>>>>>
>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>> something
>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>
>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>> by this
>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>> about
>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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