[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Jeffrey Schwartz sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
Thu May 28 21:25:41 UTC 2009 

Sorry, but I still have no idea what you are talking about, nor do you.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of trishs
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:28 AM
To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

This applied to the intension of touch.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:11:23 -0400
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>And just what does this have to do with touching or being 
touched?  Can you
>tell which organ someone is touching you with by its energy 
pathway?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of trishs
>Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:15 PM
>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>In Eastern medicine it's called a meridian.  There are energy
>channels which correspond to each body organ, which Eastern
>cultures have mapped for about as long as there's been medicine.

>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jeffrey Schwartz" <sidney.schwartz at sbcglobal.net
>>To: "'NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 21:09:33 -0400
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>What in the world is an "energy Pathway"

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>Behalf Of trishs
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:51 AM
>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>As far as "across the board answers", and people getting "mad",
>>we each have the power and self responsibility to say I'm
>>uncomfortable with that," or "Stop it! That's inappropriate!"  Or
>>"Could you do that again?"  I feel as though I can speak for most
>>people when I say that we have all been in situations where a
>>person's touch "creeped us out", or made us want more.  There are
>>many types of touch, and it is ALL ABOUT INTENSION, which is
>>carried through invisible energy pathways.
>>There are also times when we misunderstand, or misinterpret
>>someone's touch.  It can be difficult to navigate these energy
>>pathways, so your power is in your own intension for your own
>>comfort level.

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:47:07 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>being touched.

>>>Steve
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>putting
>>>> there hands on us.
>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>touched, When
>>>> we
>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>this.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>don't
>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>really don't
>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>spacial
>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>during a
>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>understand this
>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>trust.
>>>>> \
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>be
>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!

>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>Hi,

>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.

>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.

>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.

>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.

>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>greatful.

>>>>>>>Joel

>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>> Jeff

>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind

>>>>>>>> Gerardo,

>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>> sighted person, I

>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.

>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>> away.  Now, if

>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>> still there

>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>> and touch my

>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>> unusual.

>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind


>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>> Gerardo


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