[Blindtlk] you're a liability!
Sarah Baughn
sarahb006 at comcast.net
Fri May 29 00:36:18 UTC 2009
I would be so pissed off too if I were you. Sometimes, sighted people can
be so brainless.
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
To: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List"
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:47 PM
Subject: [Blindtlk] you're a liability!
> Ok. I mentioned that I had another experience to recap that dealt with
> uneducated sighted people. Here's the deal. I have been following the
> artist Kid Rock for years, hence the twitter name Kid Rock Groupie. I have
> been taking buses and trains to his shows for years, since 2001. And when
> I do, I sit up in the front, so he probably recognizes me by now. I have
> wanted to meet him for such a long time, and would go to any length to do
> so. I am on MySpace, and I read the bulletins that are sent out from his
> MySpace. On March 4, 2008, I read a bulletin that said he would be at a
> Waffle House in Duluth, Georgia. At first, I just thought about how lucky
> those people would be to meet him, but then I thought, "This is my
> chance!" So at that time, I priced tickets. I found one for $183 on Delta.
> I had to think it over for a few days. By the time I thought it over on
> March 7, the ticket had gone up to more than $700. So a friend told me
> about Airtran, and I found one on Airtran for $183. On March 11, I flew to
> Georgia early in the morning. This was going to be a one day trip and I
> was flying back to St. Louis that same night. I had called the week before
> to find out which buses or trains I would need to take to get from Atlanta
> to Duluth. Once in Atlanta, I took two trains, a bus and a cab to the
> Waffle House. It was quite a journey, but well worth it. Once I got out of
> the cab at the Waffle House, I started to head toward the back of the
> line. A security person stopped me and said, "You're blind?" LOL. Like I
> didn't know. I just replied, "Yes I am, and I'm here to meet Kid Rock. So
> I'm headed to the back of the line." "Oh no no no," he said. "We can't
> have a blind person back behind the building where we can't supervise you
> in case you get hurt. You're a liability." I kept persisting, and so did
> they. They pulled a chair out and brought it to the side of the building.
> They said they wanted me to sit in this chair on the side of the building,
> and they wanted Kid Rock to come to me. How embarrassing! I was infuriated
> that they were pulling this with me, when I have waited 8 or 9 years to
> meet him. I felt angry and upset that I would not have the same dignity as
> anyone else. So I refused and kept persisting. I decided to get in the way
> and really almost force them to put up with me in one way or another.
> Finally, one guy said, "Let's get this lady in first, so we can get her
> moved on and we won't have to deal with her anymore." They then came to me
> and told me that either I go in with the first group of people and get it
> over with, or I don't meet him at all. I had spent a lot of time, money
> and effort on this, and I wanted to meet him. So I agreed, but I was still
> angry. So I along with 15 people went inside to wait for him. They made us
> all stand in a line against the window, so he and his crew could come in.
> Once I saw them all coming in, I recognized him because he was close
> enough to me. We were supposed to let him walk by, and once he was
> positioned, we could get in line to take pictures. But I couldn't take it
> anymore, and I bolted from the line into his arms. We held each other
> tight, and once he stopped, I got in line to take a picture with him. Once
> it came my turn to meet him, and I was next in line, some guy whispered to
> him, "Kid, she's blind." The guy waved his hands and gestured and pointed
> at me. I had greeted Bob at the door when he first came inside, and I had
> my dog with me, so he obviously realized this or he too was blind. LOL. So
> instead of acknowledging this jerk's comment, Kid, or Bobby as I call him,
> didn't acknowledge it, instead talking to me and saying, "We just met." I
> was just humiliated with the way I was treated by staff when I wanted to
> stand in line outside like everyone else. I dn't like that liability
> comment and feel that people use it too loosely when they are
> uncomfortable. I was infuriated and hurt that I had to deal with this
> during a significant moment in my life. Being involved with following Kid
> Rock is literally my biggest passion, and I take it very seriously. I go
> to a few of his shows per year. Meeting him that day has only fueled my
> fire to do it again. I'm going to 3 of his shows this summer, and hope
> maybe just by chance I might run across him somewhere. My ultimate goal is
> to get to know him more closely and better. I know that he does know some
> of his fans personally, and I don't see any reason why I can't be one of
> them. I don't find that unrealistic at all, and I'm very determined to
> make it happen. I will stick to it until it does. My dad jokes that Kid
> Rock should put a restraining order against me as much as I follow him.
> LOL.
> Chasity
> Twitter: kidrockgroupie
> Skype: ronnievanzantfan4ever
> My MySpace page: www.myspace.com/chasityandvanda
> Check out the tribute page I created for my guide dog Vanda at:
> www.myspace.com/vandaandchasity
> Listen to my podcast at:
> http://www.gcast.com/u/Chasityvanda/main.xml
> Or by phone at: (559) 553-4627
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Wunder" <gwunder at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>> Perhaps my experience is not commonly shared, but there are situations in
>> which I do count steps. It is helpful to me to know that my hotel room is
>> 17 steps from the beginning of the corridor. I've gotten to where I can
>> count them in the back of my mind and still carry on a conversation or
>> think about something else of importance while I'm doing it. The step
>> counting technique is not something I would like to try to use if I was
>> 150 steps away from my desired location, but I think there are times when
>> a step count gives me information, where no other landmarks exist.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>
>>
>>> Oh, yeah, I hate that one. I remember being taught in the first grade
>>> to count steps, and then in the third grade or so, I started being
>>> taught to use a cane, and I have never counted steps since. I hate it
>>> when people think that we count steps, and I suspect that the reason
>>> that one of the people in the school faculty wanted me to learn to count
>>> steps is that they didn't know that blind people didn't do that, because
>>> they weren't exposed to blind people before me, as I was the only blind
>>> person in the school.
>>> Sarah
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>
>>>
>>>> Allot of blind people like to touch because the blind schools never
>>>> told them that you can't do that.
>>>> I know with the one I whent to did that, The parants will let the
>>>> schools raise the kids.
>>>> I know of allot of people that came out, and they will touch and rock,
>>>> and shake there heads all the time, and people see that and think we
>>>> are all like that.
>>>> Or they think we count steps.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
>>>> To: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>; "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing
>>>> List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Look "normal?" That's open to individual interpffetation. I,
>>>>> unfortunately, think it sucks to appear blind, or worse, to appear
>>>>> blind and helpless, or lost. I realize that these are manageable
>>>>> stresses, but man! That'll weigh on a Soul!
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:41:55 -0500
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>Can you ever say that again Trish.
>>>>>
>>>>>>This very morning, for example, I was at the doctor's office
>>>>> being
>>>>>>officially discharged, (from an auto accident in which I was) and
>>>>> I heard
>>>>>>the receptionist saying "hi". Her face was turned to me, and so,
>>>>> I reckoned
>>>>>>she was addressing me; but no. She was talking on the phone. I
>>>>> guess maybe
>>>>>>turning one's face toward the person just isn't enough sometimes;
>>>>> but, I
>>>>>>think that it stands you a better chance of looking normal if you
>>>>> do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>So far as touching is concerned, My girlfriend just loves a nice
>>>>> very long
>>>>>>rub on the soles of her callused constantly bare feet; but, I
>>>>> don't go for
>>>>>>the stereotypical blind monster who has only sockets for eyes and
>>>>> feels all
>>>>>>over people's faces; yuck!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>The Constantly BAREFOOTED Ray
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Old friend, what are you looking for? After those many years
>>>>> abroad you
>>>>>>come With images you tended Under foreign skies Far away from
>>>>> your own land"
>>>>>>George Seferis
>>>>>
>>>>>>Phone or Fax::
>>>>>>+1 (985) 360-3614
>>>>>>Cell:
>>>>>>+1 (985) 719-2938
>>>>>>e-mail:
>>>>>>rforetjratcomcastdotnet
>>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:47 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I hate it when that happens! I walk to the appointment desk, the
>>>>>>lady behind it says "hi", I start to state my name, and the
>>>>>>person I'm with says "she's on the phone." Grrrr!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:21:43 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Diane,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am not a person who readily hugs or touches others. But, I
>>>>>>don't mind if
>>>>>>>someone touches my arm or wants a hug. I think, when it comes to
>>>>>>someone,
>>>>>>>like a waitress speaking, it would be easier if they would touch
>>>>>>a shoulder
>>>>>>>or my hand. There have been times when someone is talking to me,
>>>>>>but I
>>>>>>>didn't know it, or they might have been talking to someone else,
>>>>>>near me,
>>>>>>>and I respond. That's sometimes difficult. Most of the time,
>>>>>>you can tell
>>>>>>>if someone is looking toward you when they're speaking. But, if
>>>>>>there's
>>>>>>>someone else, in the same direction, it's hard to know,
>>>>>>specifically, who
>>>>>>>they're looking at.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is turning out to be a very interesting topic.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cindy
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:41 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>HI Paul,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty complicated,
>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>least where I am concerned.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>>>>>would say
>>>>>>>it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>>>>>>touch on
>>>>>>>my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>>>>inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>>>>>there, or as
>>>>>>>if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have noted in this discussion that there are several people who
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite problem.
>>>>>>>Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>that I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>>>>>learned,
>>>>>>>sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>>>>>touched.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>>>>>>hard
>>>>>>>time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>>>>>>strangers by
>>>>>>>any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>>>>>associate
>>>>>>>with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>>>>>someone or
>>>>>>>look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>>>>>shoulder
>>>>>>>when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs, and
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>>>>>>had to
>>>>>>>learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>remember.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
>>>>>>to is
>>>>>>>those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>>>>>want to
>>>>>>>grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they are
>>>>>>>helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>>>>>something
>>>>>>>like that.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>>>>>evening,
>>>>>>>and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>>>>>>liberties
>>>>>>>with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>>>>appreciate it either.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Diane Graves
>>>>>>>Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>>317-232-2647
>>>>>
>>>>>>>"IT is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>George Washington Carver
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>>>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
>>>>>>for the
>>>>>>>individual or entity(ies)
>>>>>>>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>recipient, be
>>>>>>>advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>acting in reliance
>>>>>>>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
>>>>>>sender to
>>>>>>>arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>>>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>>>>candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
>>>>>>ask a
>>>>>>>question.
>>>>>>>Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>>>>>Obviously,
>>>>>>>that does not work for initiating communication with a person who
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>>>>>>or for
>>>>>>>a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>>>>>speaker
>>>>>>>is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>>>>A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>>>>>to let
>>>>>>>them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>>>>recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>>>>Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>>>>>during a
>>>>>>>conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>>>>>embarrassing a
>>>>>>>times.
>>>>>>>I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Paul Weingartner
>>>>>>>Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>>>>Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>>>>P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>>>>>www.blind.ag.org
>>>>>>>www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>touched.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Steve
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>>>>putting
>>>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>>>>>touched,
>>>>>>>When
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>>>>>this.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>>>>>really
>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>>>>spacial
>>>>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>>>>>>during
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>>>>>>understand
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>>>>>trust.
>>>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural
>>>>>>>>>>>> differences
>>>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as
>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure
>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
>>>>>>>>>> still there
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist
>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> continued
>>>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still
>>>>>>>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>>>>> 5%40verizon
>>>>>>>>>>>> .net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sidney.
>>>>>>>>>> schwartz%40
>>>>>>>>>>>> sbcglobal.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jzimba%
>>>>>>>>>> 40cavtel.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2131 - Release
>>>>>>Date:
>>>>>>>>> 05/24/09
>>>>>>>>> 07:09:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.b
>>>>>>radley%
>>>>>>>40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>info for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.
>>>>>>deeley%
>>>>>>>40insightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>-------
>>>>>>>--------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>05/26/09
>>>>>>>08:53:00
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/pweinga
>>>>>>rtner%4
>>>>>>>0ag.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves
>>>>>>%40icrc
>>>>>>>..in.gov
>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy42
>>>>>>5%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>>>%40metrocast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetj
>>>>> r%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/slosser
>>>>> %40metrocast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chasityvanda%40charter.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcast.net
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