[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Sat May 30 03:23:20 UTC 2009
Eeeehk!
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:37:10 -0700
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>Yep, I've felt like that a time or two, and the creeps that I
have emt are
>not limited to the sighted.
>Sarah
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>> There is much in appearing confident. I'm wondering if other
blind people
>> have felt as I have, like I'm a "creep magnet."
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:26:42 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>I got into a fist fight with a guy at the bus station here about
>> 4 months
>>>ago.
>>>I was asking a bus driver a question, a guy kept patting me on
>> the sholder.
>>>I asked him very nice about 3 times to please quit touching me.
>>>He kept on doing It.
>>>I had to snap at him after a while, then he followed me to my bus
>> cussing at
>>>me.
>>>He came on my bus and said that he was going to punch me in my
>> head, that's
>>>when I did that to him.
>>>Everyone was saying that He should have stopped when I asked him
>> to.
>>>But that made me and all blind people look like jerks, but enough
>> is enough.
>>>Even the gard at the station told him to not put his hands on
>> people.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:41 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> HI Paul,
>>>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
>> complicated, at
>>>> least where I am concerned.
>>>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>> would say
>>>> it is very appropriate. I would most certainly prefer a light
>> touch on
>>>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>> there, or as
>>>> if I were a child. I do not object to this at all.
>>>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
>> who have
>>>> said they don't like to be touched. I have the opposite
>> problem.
>>>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>> don't
>>>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>> people
>>>> that I know.
>>>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>> learned,
>>>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>> touched.
>>>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>> hard
>>>> time fathoming or remembering. I don't grab and cling to
>> strangers by
>>>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>> associate
>>>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>> someone or
>>>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>> shoulder
>>>> when speaking to them. I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
>> and the
>>>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates. I have
>> had to
>>>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>> to
>>>> remember.
>>>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because what I do object
>> to is
>>>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>> want to
>>>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
>> are
>>>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>> something
>>>> like that.
>>>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>> evening,
>>>> and I just want to slap her sometimes. They wouldn't take
>> liberties
>>>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>> appreciate it either.
>>>> Diane Graves
>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>> "IT is service that measures success."
>>>> George Washington Carver
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>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>> candidness of the respondents. Because of that I would like to
>> ask a
>>>> question.
>>>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>> Obviously,
>>>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person
>> who is
>>>> blind. That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>> or for
>>>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>> speaker
>>>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>> to let
>>>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>> recommend. I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>> during a
>>>> conversation. That can get pretty awkward and down right
>> embarrassing a
>>>> times.
>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>>>> Paul Weingartner
>>>> Making the Cross Accessible
>>>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>> P 417.831.1964 F 417.862.5120
>>>> www.blind.ag.org
>>>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case. I just hate
>> being
>>>> touched.
>>>> Steve
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>> putting
>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>> touched,
>>>> When
>>>>> we
>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>> this.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic. There are those, like me, who
>>>> don't
>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>> really
>>>> don't
>>>>>> know very well. I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>> spacial
>>>>>> concepts during conversations. You don't want to be too close
>> during
>>>> a
>>>>>> conversation or too far away. I suspect most of us who
>> understand
>>>> this
>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>> trust.
>>>>>> \
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>> be
>>>>>>> quite germ spreading! I like the bowing idea a lot!
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics. I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>or not. It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>communication. In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>paradigm. This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>and often. When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers. This calls attention
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game. I
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands. Long
>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well. I
>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand. Proper
>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>greatful.
>>>>>>>>Joel
>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace. I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>> 40. Now, at
>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception. When younger, I
>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing. Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative. On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching. There are cultural differences
>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors. For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space. Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others. Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> departed. There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>> blindisms. We all
>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>> in front of others. There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do. I am often
>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>> by what others can see. We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>> not either. This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public. Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking. I am working on
>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>> strange. Behavior
>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>> this? If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation. I think we've all
>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>> away. Now, if
>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>> still there
>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>> different. I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>> and touch my
>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis. So, that might not be so
>>>>>>> unusual.
>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there. I continued
>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago. I'm still shocked
>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there. How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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