[Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind

Sat May 30 06:44:04 UTC 2009

That's what I'm saying.
Some times when they are yelling at telling me I can go and wont shut up, I 
will just go, because I can't hear with them yelling anyway.
I've had very close calls like that.
I think that most of the sighted people really do mean well, It's just 
getting them to learn.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind


> This changes the topic some.
> The only time I've ever been hit by a car was the time I trusted someone 
> else's judgement.
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:25:04 -0600
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>There are allot of blind people that wont make up there own
> minds, they
>>don't want anyone to think that they are jerks, they will rather
> get them
>>selves killed then be safe and cross the street only when they
> feel safe.
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:51 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>> There is much in appearing confident.  I'm wondering if other
> blind people
>>> have felt as I have, like I'm a "creep magnet."
>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:26:42 -0600
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>I got into a fist fight with a guy at the bus station here about
>>> 4 months
>>>>ago.
>>>>I was asking a bus driver a question, a guy kept patting me on
>>> the sholder.
>>>>I asked him very nice about 3 times to please quit touching me.
>>>>He kept on doing It.
>>>>I had to snap at him after a while, then he followed me to my bus
>>> cussing at
>>>>me.
>>>>He came on my bus and said that he was going to punch me in my
>>> head, that's
>>>>when I did that to him.
>>>>Everyone was saying that He should have stopped when I asked him
>>> to.
>>>>But that made me and all blind people look like jerks, but enough
>>> is enough.
>>>>Even the gard at the station told him to not put his hands on
>>> people.
>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:41 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>> HI Paul,
>
>>>>> This is an interesting topic and it also gets pretty
>>> complicated, at
>>>>> least where I am concerned.
>
>>>>> As far as your question about making that initial contact, I
>>> would say
>>>>> it is very appropriate.  I would most certainly prefer a light
>>> touch on
>>>>> my shoulder than having someone talk to someone who is with me,
>>>>> inquiring as to what I might like to order, as if I weren't
>>> there, or as
>>>>> if I were a child.  I do not  object to this at all.
>
>>>>> I have noted in this discussion that there are several people
>>> who have
>>>>> said they don't like to be touched.  I have the opposite
>>> problem.
>>>>> Whether it has anything to do with blindness or not, I really
>>> don't
>>>>> know, but I am a person who is tactile, and or affectionate with
>>> people
>>>>> that I know.
>
>>>>> This is gotten me crossways with several people, as I have
>>> learned,
>>>>> sometimes the hard way, that some of us don't' appreciate being
>>> touched.
>
>>>>> As a tactile person myself, that is something that I have a real
>>> hard
>>>>> time fathoming or remembering.  I don't grab and cling to
>>> strangers by
>>>>> any means, but when there is a person who I know, like or
>>> associate
>>>>> with, it is not uncommon for me to reach out and want to hug
>>> someone or
>>>>> look at their hairstyle, or place a hand gently on their arm or
>>> shoulder
>>>>> when speaking to them.  I also welcome warm handshakes, hugs,
>>> and the
>>>>> like from those whom I consider friends and associates.  I have
>>> had to
>>>>> learn that some people object to this, and it isn't always easy
>>> to
>>>>> remember.
>
>>>>> Now, like I said, it gets complicated, because  what I do object
>>> to is
>>>>> those well meaning sighted people, many of them strangers, who
>>> want to
>>>>> grab me or my clothes or coat or whatever, thinking that they
>>> are
>>>>> helping to guide me or saving me from falling off a curb or
>>> something
>>>>> like that.
>
>>>>> There is a lady who does this every day at the bus stop in the
>>> evening,
>>>>> and I just want to slap her sometimes.  They wouldn't take
>>> liberties
>>>>> with and/or manhandle a sighted person like that, and I do not
>>>>> appreciate it either.
>
>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>> 317-232-2647
>
>>>>> "IT is service that measures success."
>>>>> George Washington Carver
>
>
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>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Weingartner, Paul
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:02 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>> This is an interesting topic that is very helpful because of the
>>>>> candidness of the respondents.  Because of that I would like to
>>> ask a
>>>>> question.
>>>>> Sighted people use eye contact to initiate communication.
>>> Obviously,
>>>>> that does not work for initiating communication with a person
>>> who is
>>>>> blind.  That is why it is awkward for a waitress in a restaurant
>>> or for
>>>>> a stranger in a mall to make first contact in a way to know the
>>> speaker
>>>>> is addressing the person who is blind.
>>>>> A number of totally blind friends recommend a light quick touch
>>> to let
>>>>> them know they are the person being addressed, so that is what I
>>>>> recommend.  I was wondering what some or you think.
>>>>> Also, many people who are totally blind like to hold and cling
>>> during a
>>>>> conversation.  That can get pretty awkward and down right
>>> embarrassing a
>>>>> times.
>>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts.
>
>
>>>>> Paul Weingartner
>>>>> Making the Cross Accessible
>>>>> Center for the Blind of the Assemblies of God
>>>>> P 417.831.1964   F 417.862.5120
>>>>> www.blind.ag.org
>>>>> www.blindonline.ag.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve P.  Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:47 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>> It has nothing to do with blindness in my case.  I just hate
>>> being
>>>>> touched.
>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "dewey bradley" <dewey.bradley at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>> Allot of sighted people think that they can't talk to us without
>>>>> putting
>>>>>> there hands on us.
>>>>>> The thing is allot of people like my self really hate to be
>>> touched,
>>>>> When
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> ask them to please take there hands off, they get mad.
>>>>>> I guess there is no across the board answer for things like
>>> this.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve P.  Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>> This is a very complicated topic.  There are those, like me, who
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> like being touched during conversations with individuals I
>>> really
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> know very well.  I'm wondering if blind individuals understand
>>>>> spacial
>>>>>>> concepts during conversations.  You don't want to be too close
>>> during
>>>>> a
>>>>>>> conversation or too far away.  I suspect most of us who
>>> understand
>>>>> this
>>>>>>> art have had some coaching from sighted individuals whom they
>>> trust.
>>>>>>> \
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>I was raised giving and receiving warm hand shakes, or in some
>>>>>>>> situations, embraces and or kisses, all of which seem to me to
>>> be
>>>>>>>> quite germ spreading!  I like the bowing idea a lot!
>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>From: Joel Zimba <jzimba at cavtel.net
>>>>>>>>>To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>Date sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 17:08:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings; Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>
>>>>>>>>>I love these kinds of topics.  I believe the issue of blind or
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>is mostly meaningless when it comes to whether you should touch
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>or not.  It comes down more to how comfortable you are with what
>>>>>>>> you are
>>>>>>>>>doing and your motivation for it.
>
>>>>>>>>>The examples of folks talking with their hands is a great one.
>>>>>>>> It's not
>>>>>>>>>so much that they talk with their hands, but that touching is a
>>>>>>>> means of
>>>>>>>>>communication.  In fact, if you are comfortable enough with
>>>>>>>> yurself to
>>>>>>>>>touch someone else while speaking to them, you'll pull them into
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>paradigm.  This is common wisdom in the sales world.
>
>>>>>>>>>For the blind among us, (myself included) this is most easily
>>>>>>>> donw with
>>>>>>>>>the back of the hand and making solid contact.
>
>>>>>>>>>When it comes to shaking hands, I decided to take the initiative
>>>>>>>> early
>>>>>>>>>and often.  When someone doesn't take my hand, I leave it out
>>>>>>>> there and
>>>>>>>>>then eventually start snapping my fingers.  This calls attention
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>fact that the other people are not playing the social game.  I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>taught that it is not obligatory for women to shake hands.  Long
>>>>>>>> ago I
>>>>>>>>>decided that if women want equal rights, they can do the glad
>>>>>>>> handing as
>>>>>>>>>well, so I expect them to shake and I do the snapping as well.  I
>>>>>>>>>sometimes let the elderly off the hook, though oddly, the older
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>is, the more likely they are to initiate or take my hand.  Proper
>>>>>>>>>conduct seems to not always be taught to the younger generation.
>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>we all need to go back to finishing school.
>
>>>>>>>>>Now, if someone could explain the bowing protocol to me so that
>>>>>>>> my Asian
>>>>>>>>>friends would be surprised and pleased by my manners, I would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>greatful.
>
>>>>>>>>>Joel
>
>>>>>>>>>On 5/23/2009 12:40 PM, Jeffrey Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gerardo,
>>>>>>>>>> I am also blind as a result of RP and a clinical psychologist.
>>>>>>>> My vision
>>>>>>>>>> deteriorated at a different pace.  I drove a car until I was 27
>>>>>>>> and did not
>>>>>>>>>> require adaptive technology to read and write until I was about
>>>>>>>> 40.  Now, at
>>>>>>>>>> 61, I have little more than light perception.  When younger, I
>>>>>>>> was often
>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed when my wife kindly noted that someone was reaching
>>>>>>>> out to shake
>>>>>>>>>> my hand and I was not noticing.  Eventually, I learned to avoid
>>>>>>>> this problem
>>>>>>>>>> by taking the initiative.  On occasion I reach out to discover
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> person has quickly turned their back or departed, no big deal.
>>>>>>>> I have had
>>>>>>>>>> no experience with the touching.  There are cultural differences
>>>>>>>> in such
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal behaviors.  For example, cultures vary in terms of
>>>>>>>> what is
>>>>>>>>>> regarded as personal space.  Groups vary in terms of how close
>>>>>>>> they stand to
>>>>>>>>>> each other when speaking, and also with regard to touching which
>>>>>>>> is common
>>>>>>>>>> in some cultures and taboo in others.  Perhaps your blindness
>>>>>>>> has led you to
>>>>>>>>>> exceed what is common in your culture or your parents may have
>>>>>>>> felt bad for
>>>>>>>>>> you when they saw you reach out to touch someone and the person
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> departed.  There are also a group of behaviors known as
>>>>>>>> blindisms.  We all
>>>>>>>>>> conduct little rituals of personal hygiene when alone which we
>>>>>>>> would not do
>>>>>>>>>> in front of others.  There is a tendency, particularly if one
>>>>>>>> loses their
>>>>>>>>>> vision gradually to assume that others see as we do.  I am often
>>>>>>>> surprised
>>>>>>>>>> by what others can see.  We assume that if we can't see
>>>>>>>> something others can
>>>>>>>>>> not either.  This can lead us to embarrass ourselves by
>>>>>>>> performing these
>>>>>>>>>> grooming rituals in public.  Recently, I have noticed that when
>>>>>>>> I am walking
>>>>>>>>>> and thinking about a conversation which I had or will have with
>>>>>>>> someone, I
>>>>>>>>>> am moving my lips as if I were speaking.  I am working on
>>>>>>>> suppressing this
>>>>>>>>>> behavior as I am certain that the sighted would see it as
>>>>>>>> strange.  Behavior
>>>>>>>>>> is so ritualized, and blindness can lead us to engage in some
>>>>>>>> peculiar ones.
>>>>>>>>>> As professionals, in particular, we don't want to be seen as odd
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> idiosyncratic.
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Cindy Handel
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo,
>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the time, when I would like to shake the hand of a
>>>>>>>> sighted person, I
>
>>>>>>>>>> just extend my hand and they grasp it and we shake hands.
>
>>>>>>>>>> As far as touching the arm of people, I've never done this.
>>>>>>>> When do you do
>>>>>>>>>> this?  If you're talking with someone, it shouldn't be
>>>>>>>> necessary, since
>>>>>>>>>> they're participating in the conversation.  I think we've all
>>>>>>>> experienced a
>>>>>>>>>> time when we're talking to someone and learn that they walked
>>>>>>>> away.  Now, if
>
>>>>>>>>>> you're referring to touching a person's arm to make sure they're
>>>>>>>> still there
>
>>>>>>>>>> as a way to insure that you still have their attention, that's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> different.  I have met sighted people who talk with their hands
>>>>>>>> and touch my
>
>>>>>>>>>> arm or shoulder, for emphasis.  So, that might not be so
>>>>>>>> unusual.
>
>>>>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Gerardo Corripio"<gera1027 at prodigy.net.mx
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind-Talk"<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Greetings;Behaviors in adults blind
>
>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi listers:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm Gerardo from Mexico; 31 years old and a Psychologist working
>>>>>>>> on my own
>>>>>>>>>> in my private practice.
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully I'll be able to learn lots of great things from you
>>>>>>>> guys,
>>>>>>>>>> especially of the NFB way of viewing and living with blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Now for my debut question: I've been blind all my life due to
>>>>>>>> RP; since I
>>>>>>>>>> was a teenager I remember developing a habbit of touching the
>>>>>>>> arm of the
>>>>>>>>>> people constanly to be sure he/she was still there.  I continued
>>>>>>>> to do this
>>>>>>>>>> into adulthood until my family made the observation that this
>>>>>>>> behavior isn't
>>>>>>>>>> seen well by the sighted only a few days ago.  I'm still shocked
>>>>>>>> by this
>>>>>>>>>> observation to the point that now how to know if the person is
>>>>>>>> still there?
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the voice gives feedback but when people talk it feels as
>>>>>>>> if they're
>>>>>>>>>> there but aren't there.  How have you coped with this situation
>>>>>>>> in that you
>>>>>>>>>> have to get rid of the habbit before-mentioned? Surely it has
>>>>>>>> happened to
>>>>>>>>>> some of you?
>>>>>>>>>> also when shaking hands with sighted people how to find the hand
>>>>>>>> to shake if
>>>>>>>>>> the sighted person doesn't take the initiative?
>>>>>>>>>> As you can see I've still have lots of tips and tricks to learn
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> blindness, thus my interest in joining the list.
>>>>>>>>>> Gerardo
>
>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> .net
>
>
>
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