[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
Bryan Schulz
b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Thu Aug 26 02:02:52 UTC 2010
hi,
i have asked that and other questions directly to mr. rikabono and he
doesn't care until the thing is built.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
> And here's another point. Let me speak frankly here. I'm personally all
> for what the NFB is doing with the blind driver thing; however, there's
> one very critically important consideration which the advocates of blind
> driving are overlooking. Let me state this in the form of a question.
> What will the blind driver do when; (not if mind you but when), the
> technology fails. Folks, I'm very concerned. Unless I'm missing
> something here, it looks to me like we're banking almost entirely, (if not
> totally and completely), upon the technology to get the car we can drive.
> Y'all, I think this is a very serious mistake!!! Back in my days as a
> student at the Louisiana Center for the Blind, we were always taught that
> the technology, while good, was not and is not a panacea; take the slate
> and stylus over the clunky and heavier Braille writer we all know and love
> for taking notes for example. For another, take the use of a human reader
> over the use of the scanner and OCR. The type writer over the
> computer...need I go on? Point is this. Sooner or later, whether we like
> it or not, and whether we want to admit it or not, the technology is going
> to fail. We'd better have it in our heads what we're going to do when
> that happens. I think it's quite neieve to suppose that this will not
> happen. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do this; nor, for that matter,
> am I saying that we shouldn't rely on the technology; but, we're being
> stupidly neieve if we imagine that total reliance on the technology alone
> is the best way to get us there. Strong words you say? Well, yes. But,
> I really do think we're fooling ourselves if we don't seriously consider
> this point.
> I suppose that blind kids today have no idea how the blind of past
> generations did things. How, for example, did we type before computers?
> How did we check what we were typing and make sure it was correct? Well,
> we did. That's what correction tape is for. Back then, there were ways
> of getting those things done; and, we did them. I am a bit concerned that
> perhaps, with our rush forward in to this, we are or may be overlooking
> some very important points of basic function here.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> A Very Proud and Happy Mac User!!!
>
> E-Mail:
> rforetjr at comcast dot net
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Aug 25, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Cindy Handel wrote:
>
> Yeah, I find it hard to believe that anyone would even suggest that the
> cost
> of these cars, should they ever materialize, would go down after the R&D
> has
> been recouped.
>
> I believe it's a very interesting project. But, if, in a number of years,
> a
> car is actually developed and ready to be sold, the next thing we'll have
> to
> accomplish, before we can actually drive the thing, is convince insurance
> companies to insure us. I believe that will be at least as time consuming
> as producing a car we can drive.
>
> Cindy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
>
> hi,
>
> if you really believe that theory, look how jaws software has never
> decreased a penny since 1995.
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>
>
>> Bryan,
>> Though the car is expensive now, perhaps it will not be so much after
>> the R&D is recouped. In addition, it may not ever be something I will see
>> manifested in my lifetime, but perhaps in my blind nephew's lifetime.
>> Furthermore, as the blind gain the independence that comes from this sort
>> of technology, other forms of technology that will level the playing
>> field
>> for us may come out of it!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>>
>>> yea right,
>>> if she can barely get by now how is she supposed to take an extra
>>> mortgage to help cover a 75+k car?
>>> are our heads in the sand?
>>>
>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Mary and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> This is exactly why the Blind Driver Challenge is so important and a
>>>> project to be persued now. If you didn't see it earlier here is the
>>>> link
>>>> for
>>>> the new Blind Driver Challenge Web Site:
>>>> http://www.blinddriverchallenge.org
>>>>
>>>> I've all ready linked our chapter Web site to it and will add the
>>>> link
>>>> to our home page. What really thrills me is the vast amount of content
>>>> all
>>>> ready on the site and not a single page on witch do the words "Coming
>>>> Soon"
>>>> appear. Great work Jernigan Institute and NFB!
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mari Hunziker" <marihunziker at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>; "Blind Talk Mailing List"
>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:55 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have gotten to the point that I would rather sit at home and do
>>>> nothing
>>>> than ask someone for a ride. Some people get so frustrated or seem to
>>>> be
>>>> bothered by having to help me out sometimes. Yesterday, I paid a friend
>>>> $30
>>>> dollars in gas money to drive my son home from school. My 1st grade
>>>> son,
>>>> is
>>>> not eligible to ride the school bus because his elementary school only
>>>> offers busing to kids with special needs. I asked for special
>>>> accommodations
>>>> for our situation and they were not able to help. I paid the my friend
>>>> because I could not see myself walking 1.75 miles to the school and
>>>> back
>>>> another 1.75 miles back in 105 degree heat. I told the district
>>>> transportation manager that when the heat index is so dangerously hot
>>>> it
>>>> should be mandatory that kids get rides home somehow. It breaks my
>>>> heart
>>>> that kids have to walk, ride their bike, etc home in that heat. My
>>>> transportation needs have been met by a kind friend willing to drive
>>>> out
>>>> of
>>>> her way to bring my son home. I was so blessed the last couple of years
>>>> to
>>>> have a friend in my neighborhood be willing to carpool with us. My
>>>> husband
>>>> drove the kids in the morning and she brought them home after school.
>>>> It
>>>> was
>>>> great. But of course things always change and we (I) must learn to deal
>>>> with
>>>> it like I am trying to. I just signed my 2 year old daughter up for
>>>> Dance
>>>> class and then called up CARTS to arrange a ride. So happy they can
>>>> take
>>>> us
>>>> and charge us $3 each way. We will see how it goes. I wish visually
>>>> impaired
>>>> / blind people received a living expense stipend like they do in
>>>> Canada.
>>>> It
>>>> would be so helpful for those of us living on a budget and for those of
>>>> us,
>>>> like myself who live in the suburbs with no public nor para transit
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> You all are fabulous. Thanks for all of the words of wisdom posted on
>>>> here.
>>>> I love it.
>>>>
>>>> Mari Hunziker
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:22 AM, Marion Gwizdala
>>>> <blind411 at verizon.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Diane,
>>>>> I also find it interesting that people are "amazed" that it might
>>>>> take
>>>>> us
>>>>> 2 hours to get somewhere that, by car, only takes 30 minutes. They
>>>>> also
>>>>> express concern over how much a taxicab cost. I point out to them that
>>>>> I
>>>>> get
>>>>> a lot of work done on my commutes by making telephone calls and doing
>>>>> writing. I also share with them the comparitive savings of taxicabs,
>>>>> when
>>>>> necessary, and public transportation for regular, everyday needs, as
>>>>> opposed
>>>>> to a $300 car payment, $500 insurance payment, $200/month gas budget,
>>>>> not
>>>>> to
>>>>> mention tune-ups, oil changes, tires and rotations, etc.
>>>>> I generally use the public transportation fixed route system for most
>>>>> of
>>>>> my travel needs, Para transit when necessary, and taxicabs for those
>>>>> times
>>>>> when neither of those forms of transportation are viable, e.g.
>>>>> inclement
>>>>> weather, gigs where I need to take my sound gear, and entertainment
>>>>> that
>>>>> gets out after the buses stop running! I guess it's all a matter of
>>>>> perspective!
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane"
>>>>> <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:49 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Mary,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You know it's funny. Another thing that came to mind after I sent my
>>>>>> post
>>>>>> was my amazement at how frustrated I've seen some sighted people get,
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> they have to hop into the driver's seat and take a 15 minute ride in
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> car, to go somewhere that they weren't planning to go. Maybe to run
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> errand to the grocery store, or go pick up a child, or take a child's
>>>>>> friend
>>>>>> home. It just blows me away. I'm like "give me a break."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My sister-in-law is like that. She always wants me to come out into
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> suburbs to her house, but never wants to come into the city to pick
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> visit me. I'm thinking, "hey lady, you're the one who drives!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But see, even if you are sighted you get locked into a routine, and
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> frustrated by the little unexpected inconveniences that come up.
>>>>>> Inconveniences that seem almost ridiculous to a blind person who
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> love
>>>>>> to be able to drive independently and take care of some of those
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> without the hassle of planning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>> confidential
>>>>>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>>>>>> individual
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> entity(ies)
>>>>>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>>>>>> acting
>>>>>> in reliance
>>>>>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>>>>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>>>>>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 10:23 AM
>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Diane and Gary,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your words of wisdom have left me to ponder about what the Lord has
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> store
>>>>>> for me as a mother of two wonderful children. I know that I was given
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> opportunity for a reason. I know that being visually impaired will
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> enhance my life. Yes, Diane I wish as well that I could spend $1000
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> afternoon and not think twice. Being financially secure does help
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> life
>>>>>> a bit more comfortable but not necessarily happier. It takes a lot
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> self
>>>>>> assurance of oneself to be happy. That is what I think my real issue
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> want to be happy with all that I have. I am most of the time. Its
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> emotional roller coaster that I don't enjoy riding at times. But for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> most part life is good. Thank you for your words of wisdom. I really
>>>>>> appreciate it.
>>>>>> Mari Hunziker
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Graves, Diane <dgraves at icrc.in.gov>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mary,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First, please know that I do understand your feelings and
>>>>>>> frustrations
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> too well. I have definitely been there before, and occasionally
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> there. I think there was a lot of wisdom to be found in Gary's post,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> I'll just second it with a couple of points.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't care how well adjusted and accomplished you are as a blind
>>>>>>> person,
>>>>>>> there are times when having sight would simply be more convenient.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> get frustrating sometimes. But if you think about it, this is true
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> areas of our lives. I often find myself feeling envious of those who
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> shopping, spend $1000 in an afternoon, and not think twice about it,
>>>>>>> while I
>>>>>>> am struggling to make sure all of the bills are paid. I am
>>>>>>> frustrated
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the members of congress charged with making our tax and economic
>>>>>>> decisions,
>>>>>>> are the people making more money than most of us will ever see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am often disgusted by the women who complain and refer to
>>>>>>> themselves
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> "fat" because they can't fit into a size 4 dress, when I would give
>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>> to see a size 14 again
>>>>>>> . These are just some small, maybe silly, examples, but my point is
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> blindness is just one of the many frustrations that life has to
>>>>>>> offer.
>>>>>>> Life
>>>>>>> has dealt us all a partial deck of cards, and we just have to learn
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>> the best game we can with the cards that we've been dealt. But, as
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> skilled card player knows, the more you practice, the more skilled
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> become.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just know that while you are concerned about transportation issues
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> school is concerned, some other mother is agonizing over how she is
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> get new shoes for her child, or pay for the after school childcare.
>>>>>>> Another
>>>>>>> mother is worried about how she is going to get her wayward,
>>>>>>> rebellious
>>>>>>> teenager through high school in one piece, and on and on. This is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> say that your concerns aren't frustrating and understandable. Please
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> think that that is what I am saying at all. I'm just saying that the
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> community is not the only population that encounters these
>>>>>>> frustrations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this makes a little bit of sense, at least. Gary did a much
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> job than I. If you are able to attend an NFB Training Center I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> would be great for you. It is always something that I wanted to do,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> never had the opportunity. All the reports I have heard though have
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> amazing, and, if nothing else, it would offer you support and build
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> level of self confidence. I know that having a child would pose
>>>>>>> concerns
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> this area too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feel free to vent to us any time. We are all here to help you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (big cyber hug for you)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>>>>> confidential
>>>>>>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the
>>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> entity(ies)
>>>>>>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>>>>>>> acting
>>>>>>> in reliance
>>>>>>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>>>>>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>>>>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mari Hunziker
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:13 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you so much for sharing that Mike. I would love to learn more
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> the NFB centers. I am now needing more assistance in finding
>>>>>>> creative
>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>> of finding transportation for my son to get to and from school each
>>>>>>> day.
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> being able to drive or to do other things is a constant struggle. I
>>>>>>> wish
>>>>>>> there was someway to get over the emotional roller coaster I ride
>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>> day.
>>>>>>> Some days thinking its a blessing to be blind and other days it is a
>>>>>>> curse.
>>>>>>> How have you all gotten over this?
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Mari Hunziker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a matter of fact, one of the things done at our NFB centers is
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> some grilling and other chores that involve working with fire
>>>>>>>> precisely
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> get people over their fear of being burned. It's not thatanyone
>>>>>>>> wishes
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> burned but (a) blindness doesn't increase one's risks assuming one
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> careful and (b) we want to turn that fear into what might be termed
>>>>>>> healthy
>>>>>>>> respect for fire which still allows one to work with it. At the end
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> day, it becomes another lesson that blindness need not prevent us
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> leading normal lives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews"
>>>>>>>> <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:22 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Grilling question
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A totally blind person can grill or smoke. i have a gas grill,
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>>> large off-set smoker and use them regularly. I have also grilled
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> charcoal -- although the gas grill is easier.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are lots of techniques to do stuff. One good source is our
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>> cooks list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blind-cooks_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> p.s. You mentioned a "fear of getting burned." Just like with an
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> oven,
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> pot of boiling water, a gas stove etc., you can get burned if you
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> stuff carefully and correctly, but like with the other things
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> ways.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 08:42 AM 8/24/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Was anyone of you grillers afraid of the fire and the potential
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>> burned. That is what keeps me from doing it. We have a charcoal
>>>>>>>>>> grill/smoker. My brother, father and husband have mastered the
>>>>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>> taste
>>>>>>>>>> of grilled food. I have always thought that I could not grill or
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> of that nature because I am blind(visually impaired). I now think
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> just be a fear of getting burned. I do cook fairly well in doors,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>> thought about trying it outdoors. The next time we grill out. I
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> pay more attention on how it is done so that I may someday try
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>> Who
>>>>>>>>>> knows, I may like doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com
>>>>>>>>> Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/marihunziker%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>>
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