[Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

Tue Aug 31 13:29:09 UTC 2010

Brian, I don't know if you remember back in the seventies when we battled the insurance industry to get life and other insurances at the same cost as sighted individuals. At the time, it was impossible to get insurance for a car, that I didn't drive, and never planed to. Remember that insurance is experience driven. In order to get a rate, one must be able to compute probability of loss. I'll be happy to work on insurance problems, as soon as we have something to insure. If we do not have a vehicle to drive, there is none to insure, hence no insurance problem. So, let's get the problem first, then we can solve it. 

And Gary, do we serve the elephant with peanut sauce?

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 4:27 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

I asked Mark Riccobono and Anil Lewis who both believe they have talked with you. They do not appear smug to me and indicated they enjoyed your challenging questions. What they tried to tell you and what makes sense to me is that things must proceed in a sequence. There is nothing we know of to discuss with an insurance company until there is a vehicle they can see and test. There is nothing for us to say to congress about changing the laws of our land to eliminate vision requirements to drive until there is a way to drive without vision. These issues are important but have to be discussed in a sequence which makes sense.

When we have something which is demonstrably safe for us to drive, then we start building the base for a change in law. With that change in law, negotiations with an industry who will want our business makes sense.

One last point. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. The way we will get from transportation on which we are dependent on others to transportation which makes us as independent as sighted folks is to take each challenge, and indeed, they are significant challenges, and work on them one at a time. If you can think of a way to approach Congress and the insurance industry before we have a product, let's talk about what we should be doing and saying. In the meantime, let's start on the elephant.

 -----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:30 AM
To: lras at sprynet.com; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

hi,

well then everyone is not quoting the same stats.
i was told from the top that just the completed prototype will be somewhere between 1 and 2 million with a m.
my irritation and bias is with the smug attitudes of the people at the top that directly told me they don't care about public acceptance, insurance, or drivers licenses until there is something on the road.
talk about being blind, refusing to even begin strategizing how to overcome these roadblocks is burying your head in the sand like an ostrige.
Bryan Schulz

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd Rasmussen" <lras at sprynet.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel

>I am on the NFB R&D Committee, where we have discussed this project  
>forseveral years.  Dr. Maurer or Mark Riccobono would have to give you  
>specifics, but I don't think that we have had to spend very much money 
>on  the blind driver challenge so far.  We are concentrating some 
>effort on  getting engineering students to work on projects which would 
>be beneficial  to us, and this is one area where this effort is 
>working.  Our leaders  take  risks, but they are prudent.  And rapid 
>access to tactile graphics may  open  up some employment opportunities 
>even if driving doesn't pan out in the  near  future.
>
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, Maryland
> Home:  http://lras.home.sprynet.com
> Work:  http://www.loc.gov/nls
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brian Miller
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 5:37 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I totally agree that just because something is difficult, or because 
>> sighted folks say it just can't be done, doesn't mean we shouldn't 
>> try it.
>> However,
>> we are not an organization with infinite resources, and we must 
>> choose carefully what it is we will  commitment our limited resources to.
>>
>> I'm sure our leadership has considered this, and is well aware of the 
>> range and scope of choices to be made, and the impact such choices 
>> will have on our resources.
>>
>> I wish those of us in the organization who are not directly involved 
>> in this effort knew how much of our resources will b committed to 
>> this endeavor -- how much time, how much money, how much 
>> person-power.  Perhaps this information is out there and I've just 
>> missed it, but as yet I haven't seen such a breakdown of the 
>> resources we've committed or will commit.
>>
>> Again, this doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it just means we need to 
>> be aware of what the consequences will be to making such a choice -- 
>> i.e., this is important enough that we've committed X amount of 
>> whatever to the effort, and as such, it also means we may have less 
>> for something else.
>>
>> Best always,
>>
>> Brian Miller
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 4:25 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Cost of Independent Travel
>>
>> A number of people here have pointed out problems with developing a 
>> car that blind persons could drive.  It seems to me that the tone of 
>> some of these messages, if not the words, is that this is something 
>> we shouldn't do because of this and that.
>>
>> For sure, there are lots of problems ahead of us.  However, one can 
>> choose to see these as challenges and opportunities, not disabling 
>> problems.  We can always find reasons not to do something.  Doing it 
>> is harder because we must go against conventional wisdom.  However if 
>> we had accepted what sighted people said we could do, or not do, all 
>> along, we would still be in the dark ages, literally and 
>> figuratively.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 08:32 AM 8/26/2010, you wrote:
>> >Hi Ray,
>> >
>> >I do think you make some good points, and I have thought of these 
>> >questions myself. I understand the underlying purpose of the 
>> >project, but there are a lot of problems to be worked out before it 
>> >is even remotely possible. I do think there are much more productive 
>> >things that we could be doing with the funds that are being put into 
>> >this project.
>> >
>> >I go back and forth on this issue. Mostly though, I wish the 
>> >organization were putting its money somewhere else.
>
>
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