[Blindtlk] We're not going to convince each other

Tue Aug 31 20:09:40 UTC 2010

I don't think we're going to change each other's minds. If airlines were truly interested in getting everyone on the plane expeditiously, they'd start with the back of the craft, and fill forward. First class passengers, who are in the front, would board last. Cary on luggage would be minimal. There would be enough storage for it. We wouldn't mess with boarding zones. 
And of course, all children would be well behaved, babies wouldn't cry, and the guy in the seat by the window would never need to get up just as you were falling asleep. Unfortunately, none of these things is going to happen. Adding all the above together, if I do take extra time (I don't think I do, but I won't argue about it) getting on the plane, it pales in comparison to the other things that hold up or inconvenience passengers. 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Graves, Diane
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:57 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might findthisinteresting-AirTranfined $500K for disability violations

It seems to me that you are overlooking the point that Steve was trying to make though. We are no more of an inconvenience than many sighted people are sometimes. We all have to wait on, and be respectful of  others sometimes. Even if you are boarded before everyone else, and the employees  don't have to fight the traffic, you are still taking someone away from their position to do something they would not ordinarily have to do.

What is your position on the wheelchair mandate? Do you believe that the blind should be reduced by being forced into wheelchairs that they don't need just because this might save a fraction of time for an airport employee?

If you prefer to preboard, and that works best for you, then that is absolutely your business. But please don't label all blind people as fumbling "Mr. Magoos" and degrade others because they believe themselves capable of taking their places in the social mainstream. These are the attitudes that the NFB has focused on eradicating, and why most of us are proud to be a part of the organization.

Respectfully,

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:34 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find thisinteresting-AirTranfined $500K for disability violations

They show you to your seat prior to other passangers board.  It does take blind individuals longer to find their seats.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find thisinteresting-AirTranfined $500K for disability violations

> Steve,
>
> While I can't say that what you describe never happens, and also that 
> you shouldn't handle this as you feel most comfortable, one must ask 
> additional questions if they are really going to paint a complete 
> picture.  In all fairness who fills in for the flight crew member when 
> they are showing you your seat?
> Who is inconvenienced when the flight crew member must walk against 
> the traffic to move from your seat back to the front of the plane.  I 
> don't fly a lot, but I don't ever remember a time when I didn't have 
> to wait for the people in front of me to get their bags put away 
> before I could get to my seat, and they have generally all been 
> sighted.  We certainly need to think of how our actions impact others, 
> but we also have to keep them in perspective.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 10:21:32 -0400, Steve P. Deeley wrote:
>
>>I have observed blind individuals who refused assistance from the 
>>flight crew when boarding and they held everyone else up while fumbling around.
>>This is a real issue that blind individuals should take into 
>>consideration.
>>I have vision, however, I always allow a member of the flight crew to 
>>assist me in locating my seat quickly.  If you are a frequent business 
>>flier, then you know time is money!!
>>Steve
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find 
>>thisinteresting-AirTranfined $500K for disability violations
>
>
>>> With regard to preboarding, I think the word "preference" is the key.
>>> There was a time when it was forced on us whether we wanted it or not.
>>>
>>> We are all individuals. Another example would be perhaps crossing a 
>>> busy intersection. There are some blind individuals who would prefer 
>>> to have a fellow crosser offer an arm or some assistance. There are 
>>> others who feel competent in this area and would prefer to be left 
>>> alone to do it themselves. With regard to the latter group, if a 
>>> sighted person comes up and offers some assistance which is politely 
>>> refused and the sighted person goes on about their business, , there 
>>> is no problem. If, however, that sighted person insists, grabs the 
>>> blind person's arm, not taking "no"
>>> for an answer, that constitutes a major problem and should  not be 
>>> tolerated.
>>>
>>> person
>>>
>>>
>>> Diane Graves
>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> 317-232-2647
>>>
>>> "It is service that measures success."
>>> George Washington Carver
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain 
>>> confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for 
>>> the individual or
>>> entity(ies)
>>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, 
>>> be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, 
>>> or acting in reliance upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly 
>>> prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, 
>>> please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery 
>>> of the transmission.
>>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 9:34 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find this 
>>> interesting-AirTran fined $500K for disability violations
>>>
>>> I am making note to this because after the convention, I got a lot 
>>> of e-mails asking me who to contact at the airlines where it was 
>>> related to a guide dog user, having issues with the staff or a blind 
>>> person force to sit in wheelchairs.
>>>
>>> It is just a topic, and we don't know what other issues airtran has, 
>>> they might not think it is worth noting about guide dogs and the 
>>> blind.  Who knows, I posted it as interest and reminding people here 
>>> since we are a non-profit organization that is an advocacy group for 
>>> the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>>>
>>> Cheryl Echevarria
>>> Independent Travel Consultant
>>> C10-10646
>>>
>>> http://Echevarriatravel.com
>>> 1-866-580-5574
>>> skype: angeldn3
>>>
>>> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel 
>>> CST-1018299-10 Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute 
>>> Cruise and Travel Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:58 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find this 
>>> interesting-AirTran fined $500K for disability violations
>>>
>>>
>>>> The objection is to forced pre-boarding.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Peachtree Travel
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 7:51 AM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Thought you all might find this
>>>> interesting -AirTran fined $500K for disability violations
>>>>
>>>> Ray:
>>>>
>>>> By law, all the airlines are required to have a system in place to
>>>> document all disability complaints.  This stems from the ADA mandates.
>>>> Sounds like Air Tran was either underreporting the complaints or doing
>>>> nothing in a timely manner regarding the complaints they already had on
>>>> file.
>>>>
>>>> It also seems most of the complaints that Air ran is being accused of
>>>> underreporting or not taking action on are from wheelchair users or not
>>>> helping a blind person get to their flight or connection on time.
>>>>
>>>> I remember when working for Marriott International, we had strict
>>>> guidelines for ADA calls.  We could never tell the disability caller
>>>> there
>>>> wasn't any accessible rooms in the hotel.  If we couldn't guaranty them 
>>>> a
>>>> accessible room, we had to finish the reservation and transfer the call
>>>> to
>>>> the ADA department.
>>>>
>>>> The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
>>>>
>>>> Maurice
>>>>
>>>> We know that you have a choice in choosing a Travel Partner and truly
>>>> appreciate that you have selected Peachtree Travel.
>>>>
>>>> Independent Travel Consultant
>>>> http://www.Peachtreetravel.net
>>>> (phone) 888-389-2723
>>>> (fax) 888-563-4698
>>>> Reservations at peachtreetravel.net
>>>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>>>> CST-1018299-10
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>
>
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