[Blindtlk] Needing feedback and support
Tara Annis
TAnnis at afb.net
Tue Dec 14 17:32:46 UTC 2010
I agree with others' comments about:
That when you tell some sighted people about getting angry over patronizing comments, they will say that you are overreacting, that the person is just trying to help, is ignorant about blindness, and I shouldn't get angry.
Well, think about it this way, people in the south really believed that black people were lesser beings and were meant to be slaves. They were ignorant, and weren't trying to be mean. Does this mean we should have just let slavery keep happening? because slave owners were ignorant and really didn't understand?
It is true that the person who is patronizing will listen to sighted people when they talk about a blind person being independent, and to leave him alone. Yet, if you as the blind person try to tell them this info, the patronizer won't listen. This is so frustrating!!
I agree that you could try to help out the person who is constantly bringing stuff to your desk, such as getting her coffee or getting her papers from the copy machine, but you do risk coming off as sarcastic, trying to imitate her behavior.
I thought about writing into talk shows, PBS, or any type of network that does documentaries about the stigma of blindness. I would like a sighted investigator to go out in public using a white cane, and pretending to read braille, and see how the public responds. This would be a difficult task, since most people who pretend they are blind, start hitting the cane on everything and stumbling. By the way, I hate this. Or, you get the people who won't even touch a cane, saying they are embarrassed to use it. I guess I should be happy they're being honest, and telling their true emotions, even if it is hurtful to cane users.
Anyway, back to the subject. The investigator could use a hidden camera, recording people's comments, and people staring. It is a similar idea to past investigations I have seen done for overweight people, attractive versus not attractive comparisons, etc.
I think the public would get the idea that blindness itself is not the problem, public attitudes are the problem.
It seems like any exercise the public does on disability is about seeing how hard it is to live as a blind person. The sighted person is blindfolded, and then asked to pour a glass of milk, cross the street, etc.
The sighted person is supposed to feel empathy, and quit making fun of blind people, since he now knows how hard it is to not be sighted. The whole thing makes me sad.
I really think that is still the norm about disability--that you shouldn't make fun of a blind person--just go up and ask him what you can do to help.
I am totally serious about the documentary, so if anyone knows a producer, pass the idea along.
Tara Annis
Information Specialist
American Foundation for the Blind
1000 fifth Ave.
Suite 350
Huntington, WV 25701
Phone: (304) 710-3035
E-mail: tannis at afb.net
Visit our web site at: www.afb.org
Expanding possibilities for people with vision loss (TM)
Information provided in this message is for educational and informational use only and is not intended as medical advice or as an endorsement of any product.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 8:45 AM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (James Kelm)
2. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Gloria Whipple)
3. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Constance Canode)
4. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Graves, Diane)
5. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (James Kelm)
6. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Cindy Handel)
7. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Ray Foret Jr)
8. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Ray Foret Jr)
9. Developing a program that will help individuals with special
needs (Mari Hunziker)
10. Re: Developing a program that will help individuals with
special needs (Ray Foret Jr)
11. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Julie J)
12. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Jeanette Fortin)
13. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Ray Foret Jr)
14. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Constance Canode)
15. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Constance Canode)
16. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Bonnie Lucas)
17. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Robert A.Hansen)
18. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Robert A.Hansen)
19. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Graves, Diane)
20. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Judy Jones)
21. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Graves, Diane)
22. Re: Needing Feedback and Support (Judy Jones)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 12:53:54 -0600
From: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <001e01cb97d2$6e925040$7001a8c0 at domain.actdsltmp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear friends,
I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
*smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her comments.
If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit down
and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt yourself,
so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making dinner
on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using the
oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't let
you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a touch
of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for myself.
She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We have
noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if a
third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
LOLL
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
>
>
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
>
> cell number: 509-475-4993
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Constance Canode
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> and resorted to calling me by name.
>
> Connie
> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> >Diane,
> >
> >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> >using a formal memorandum or something.
> >
> >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >
> >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> >
> >Skype Name:
> >barefootedray
> >
> >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Federationists.
> > >
> > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > >
> > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > some good suggestions here.
> > >
> > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > >
> > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > >
> > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > >
> > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > >
> > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > >
> > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > >
> > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > >
> > > Diane Graves
> > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > 317-232-2647
> > >
> > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > George Washington Carver
> > >
> > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> immediately.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for blindtlk:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> lobal.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
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> d.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:47:33 -0800
From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <000101cb97d1$8ad735f0$a085a1d0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
James,
I love your sense of humor!
Awesome!
Gloria Whipple
Corresponding Secretary
Inland Empire chapter
nfb of WA
cell number: 509-475-4993
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Kelm
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:54 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Dear friends,
I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
*smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her comments.
If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit down
and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt yourself,
so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making dinner
on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using the
oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't let
you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a touch
of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for myself.
She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We have
noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if a
third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
LOLL
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
>
>
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
>
> cell number: 509-475-4993
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Constance Canode
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> and resorted to calling me by name.
>
> Connie
> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> >Diane,
> >
> >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> >using a formal memorandum or something.
> >
> >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >
> >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> >
> >Skype Name:
> >barefootedray
> >
> >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Federationists.
> > >
> > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > >
> > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > some good suggestions here.
> > >
> > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > >
> > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > >
> > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > >
> > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > >
> > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > >
> > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > >
> > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > >
> > > Diane Graves
> > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > 317-232-2647
> > >
> > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > George Washington Carver
> > >
> > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> immediately.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for blindtlk:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> lobal.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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> blindtlk:
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:03:40 -0600
From: Constance Canode <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20101209130242.023ed028 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Diane, thank you. I didn't mean to be witty when I said it because I
wasn't smiling, but when I think about it now, I smile. I sure hope
things get better for you.
Connie
At 10:56 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>Connie,
>
>That is funny. What a witty response. That is part of my problem
>too, is that I don't always think quickly on my feet so that I can
>offer those witty comebacks.
>
>I like that.
>
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>
>"It is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>the individual or entity(ies)
>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>or acting in reliance
>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Constance Canode
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:53 AM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
>file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
>a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
>honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
>because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
>and resorted to calling me by name.
>
>Connie
>At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> >Diane,
> >
> >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> >using a formal memorandum or something.
> >
> >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >
> >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> >
> >Skype Name:
> >barefootedray
> >
> >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Federationists.
> > >
> > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > >
> > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > some good suggestions here.
> > >
> > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > >
> > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > >
> > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > >
> > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > >
> > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > >
> > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > >
> > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > >
> > > Diane Graves
> > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > 317-232-2647
> > >
> > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > George Washington Carver
> > >
> > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> immediately.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for blindtlk:
> > >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bea
> r%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for blindtlk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.gov
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for blindtlk:
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:12:24 -0500
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID:
<355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433011C96316B8 at IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have to say Pastor Kelm, that I am guilty of losing my Christian decorum or frame of mind over this sort of thing. If someone came into my house talking about "you just sit down," I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to say, "you just shut up." Or better yet, "you just get out." LOL
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Kelm
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:54 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Dear friends,
I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
*smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her comments.
If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit down
and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt yourself,
so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making dinner
on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using the
oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't let
you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a touch
of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for myself.
She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We have
noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if a
third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
LOLL
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
>
>
> Gloria Whipple
> Corresponding Secretary
> Inland Empire chapter
> nfb of WA
>
> cell number: 509-475-4993
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Constance Canode
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> and resorted to calling me by name.
>
> Connie
> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> >Diane,
> >
> >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> >using a formal memorandum or something.
> >
> >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> >
> >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> >
> >Skype Name:
> >barefootedray
> >
> >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Federationists.
> > >
> > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > >
> > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > some good suggestions here.
> > >
> > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > >
> > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > >
> > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > >
> > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > >
> > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > >
> > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > >
> > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > >
> > > Diane Graves
> > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > 317-232-2647
> > >
> > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > George Washington Carver
> > >
> > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> immediately.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for blindtlk:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >blindtlk mailing list
> >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >for blindtlk:
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> lobal.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/fairyfoot%40webban
> d.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jameskelm%40earthlink.net
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:33:10 -0600
From: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <003a01cb97e8$adbc5980$7001a8c0 at domain.actdsltmp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Diane,
It is ironic of just how many people will be totally offensive to a
blind person, all under the name of "only being kind"! I often think what
society's opinion would be, if we substituted another minority in the place
of a blind person. "I am amazed that a black person is able to do that
job", or "I don't think that a Jewish person should be able to live on their
own". For me personally, I can't imagine that anyone would allow a woman to
attempt to be independent! LOLL
Now that I have sturred up the pot, I will close this E-mail! *smile*
And remember all of you who are Hispanic... I am only trying to help!
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I have to say Pastor Kelm, that I am guilty of losing my Christian decorum
or frame of mind over this sort of thing. If someone came into my house
talking about "you just sit down," I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to
say, "you just shut up." Or better yet, "you just get out." LOL
>
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Kelm
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
> *smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
> issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
> probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
> this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
>
> I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
> apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her
comments.
> If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
> proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
> If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
> home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
> his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
> hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
> proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit
down
> and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt
yourself,
> so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making
dinner
> on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
> conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using
the
> oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't
let
> you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
> professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
> for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a
touch
> of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
>
> I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
> worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for
myself.
> She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
> third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
> general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
> because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
> remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We
have
> noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if
a
> third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
>
> I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
> ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
> dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
> do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
> LOLL
>
>
> Respectfully in Christ,
> Pastor James Kelm
> Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
> www.fcfministry.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
> > I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
> >
> >
> > Gloria Whipple
> > Corresponding Secretary
> > Inland Empire chapter
> > nfb of WA
> >
> > cell number: 509-475-4993
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Constance Canode
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> >
> > Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> > file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> > a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> > honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> > because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> > and resorted to calling me by name.
> >
> > Connie
> > At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> > >Diane,
> > >
> > >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> > >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> > >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> > >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> > >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> > >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> > >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> > >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> > >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> > >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> > >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> > >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> > >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> > >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> > >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> > >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> > >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> > >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> > >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> > >using a formal memorandum or something.
> > >
> > >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> > >
> > >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> > >
> > >Skype Name:
> > >barefootedray
> > >
> > >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Federationists.
> > > >
> > > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > > >
> > > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > > some good suggestions here.
> > > >
> > > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > > >
> > > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > > >
> > > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > > >
> > > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > > >
> > > > Diane Graves
> > > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > > 317-232-2647
> > > >
> > > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > > George Washington Carver
> > > >
> > > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> > immediately.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for blindtlk:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindtlk mailing list
> > >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >for blindtlk:
> >
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> > lobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/fairyfoot%40webban
> > d.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> >
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>
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>
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> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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blindtlk:
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:49:45 -0500
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <E4F41D895DB94ECF8C94D8928653F7BD at cindy2e65cf610>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I think inviting this woman to lunch, or somewhere, on your terms, might be
helpful. Even though she sees you performing your job, successfully, on a
daily basis, it hasn't made an impression. So, maybe meeting outside the
workplace will help.
A former pastor of the church I attend used to greet me, along with the
other church members as we left the service. But, when talking to me, his
voice rose an octive, as though he was talking with a child. This really
bothered me. I didn't say anything though. But, as I got more involved in
the church; taking on responsibilities and doing things on my own, he
started talkijng to me the same as the other people. So, seeing me as a
contributing member of the church really seemed to help.
CindyFrom: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Dear Diane,
It is ironic of just how many people will be totally offensive to a
blind person, all under the name of "only being kind"! I often think what
society's opinion would be, if we substituted another minority in the place
of a blind person. "I am amazed that a black person is able to do that
job", or "I don't think that a Jewish person should be able to live on their
own". For me personally, I can't imagine that anyone would allow a woman to
attempt to be independent! LOLL
Now that I have sturred up the pot, I will close this E-mail! *smile*
And remember all of you who are Hispanic... I am only trying to help!
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I have to say Pastor Kelm, that I am guilty of losing my Christian decorum
or frame of mind over this sort of thing. If someone came into my house
talking about "you just sit down," I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to
say, "you just shut up." Or better yet, "you just get out." LOL
>
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Kelm
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
> *smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
> issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
> probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
> this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
>
> I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
> apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her
comments.
> If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
> proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
> If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
> home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
> his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
> hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
> proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit
down
> and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt
yourself,
> so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making
dinner
> on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
> conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using
the
> oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't
let
> you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
> professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
> for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a
touch
> of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
>
> I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
> worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for
myself.
> She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
> third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
> general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
> because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
> remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We
have
> noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if
a
> third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
>
> I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
> ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
> dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
> do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
> LOLL
>
>
> Respectfully in Christ,
> Pastor James Kelm
> Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
> www.fcfministry.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
> > I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
> >
> >
> > Gloria Whipple
> > Corresponding Secretary
> > Inland Empire chapter
> > nfb of WA
> >
> > cell number: 509-475-4993
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Constance Canode
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> >
> > Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> > file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> > a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> > honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> > because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> > and resorted to calling me by name.
> >
> > Connie
> > At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> > >Diane,
> > >
> > >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> > >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> > >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> > >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> > >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> > >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> > >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> > >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> > >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> > >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> > >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> > >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> > >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> > >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> > >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> > >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> > >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> > >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> > >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> > >using a formal memorandum or something.
> > >
> > >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> > >
> > >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> > >
> > >Skype Name:
> > >barefootedray
> > >
> > >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Federationists.
> > > >
> > > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > > >
> > > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > > some good suggestions here.
> > > >
> > > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > > >
> > > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > > >
> > > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > > >
> > > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > > >
> > > > Diane Graves
> > > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > > 317-232-2647
> > > >
> > > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > > George Washington Carver
> > > >
> > > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> > immediately.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for blindtlk:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindtlk mailing list
> > >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >for blindtlk:
> >
>
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> > lobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/fairyfoot%40webban
> > d.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:48:35 -0600
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <03F3877E-457F-418A-B4DB-59043D7D3920 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it. However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them. My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to calling me by name.
>
> Connie
> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>> Diane,
>>
>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hello Federationists.
>> >
>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>> >
>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions here.
>> >
>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
>> >
>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
>> >
>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
>> >
>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>> >
>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>> >
>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>> >
>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>> >
>> > Diane Graves
>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> > 317-232-2647
>> >
>> > "It is service that measures success."
>> > George Washington Carver
>> >
>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:52:48 -0600
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <BDF6C5C6-25BD-4A1F-9D49-297BA10E8BED at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dianne,
I must be frank with you here. At first, part of me was wondering just how comfortable you really are with your own blindness. Then, I reread your message, and the one just now. In your message just now, you say in part, ". I just get burnt out on the negative assumptions, and the unwillingness to listen to what I say". But, here's the thing. Do you have a habbit of waiting too long before you say something and maybe that's why people don't listen? In answering this, I'm not asking you to be honest wiht me so much as with yourself.
Just something to think over.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> . I just get burnt out on the negative assumptions, and the unwillingness to listen to what I say
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:16:31 -0600
From: Mari Hunziker <marihunziker at gmail.com>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindtlk] Developing a program that will help individuals
with special needs
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimH1Obvh=vp66La7p5QPQbqvVTU784efW6JZ=jb at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi,
I have always wanted to develop my own program that will allow individuals
with special needs to achieve full independence and happiness. I have great
ideas and lots of experience of what I am wanting to achieve. But actually
doing it is the hard part. Any ideas would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Mari Hunziker
--
*Mari Hunziker
512-670-9950 home
512-587-1463 cell
*
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:20:33 -0600
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Developing a program that will help
individuals with special needs
Message-ID: <D174C18C-A1CE-471B-A180-87AE596C223D at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Seems a bit vapid to me. by this, I mean that perhaps you might narrow it down a bit. Just what kind of programs or program did you have in mind? Another point is this. Who is the intended recipient of the program? Just two points to star off with.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:16 PM, Mari Hunziker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have always wanted to develop my own program that will allow individuals
> with special needs to achieve full independence and happiness. I have great
> ideas and lots of experience of what I am wanting to achieve. But actually
> doing it is the hard part. Any ideas would be really appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Mari Hunziker
>
> --
> *Mari Hunziker
> 512-670-9950 home
> 512-587-1463 cell
> *
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:25:14 -0600
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <01f001cb97ef$fc3a2cc0$0201a8c0 at your07cc84feb2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Ray,
I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear grown ups
call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are correct this is not
something done in the north in the same way those terms are used in the
south. I wasn't offended at all because everyone talks that way to
everyone else. It was normal and natural there.
I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and sweetie are
used for small children, animals and people in a socially inferior status.
Elderly people seem to get a free pass to call anyone under 40 sweetie. And
of course those terms might be appropriate in an intimate setting between
romantic partners. Waitresses seem to use those terms a lot, which I find
annoying but as long as they are treating all the customers at the same
level of annoying I let it go.
HTH
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one
> remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of
> speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it.
> However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is
> being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them.
> My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't
> get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used
> on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record
> straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get
> lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>
>> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
>> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a
>> physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I
>> politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it
>> did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to
>> calling me by name.
>>
>> Connie
>> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>> Diane,
>>>
>>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
>>> particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try.
>>> Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or
>>> something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you
>>> feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long
>>> term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do
>>> that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as
>>> well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd
>>> start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break
>>> room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you
>>> actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to
>>> her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk
>>> alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what
>>> about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the
>>> boss involved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I
>>> kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for
>>> much too long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning
>>> of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort
>>> to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>> >
>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here
>>> > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for a
>>> > good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, I'm
>>> > hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>> >
>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and
>>> > am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm
>>> > afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with condescending
>>> > comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an effective,
>>> > graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, the other
>>> > is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, and neither
>>> > is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions here.
>>> >
>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I
>>> > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing
>>> > out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar
>>> > treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this
>>> > treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches
>>> > back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll
>>> > just give you the latest example.
>>> >
>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
>>> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
>>> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
>>> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other
>>> > staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was
>>> > asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but
>>> > these things add up and happen all the time.
>>> >
>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so
>>> > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for a
>>> > staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, and
>>> > using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I have
>>> > never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I talked to
>>> > a group of high school students who came to the office a few months
>>> > ago about my job and what I do, and this same person proceeded to tell
>>> > me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing because I can tell a
>>> > group of kids what I do for a living?
>>> >
>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have
>>> > been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was
>>> > making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over
>>> > these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>>> >
>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to
>>> > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I were
>>> > a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on the
>>> > basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and it
>>> > isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this effectively?
>>> > Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>> >
>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>> >
>>> > Diane Graves
>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> > 317-232-2647
>>> >
>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>> > George Washington Carver
>>> >
>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>>> > the individual or entity(ies)
>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>>> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>>> > acting in reliance
>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>>> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > blindtlk:
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 15:30:43 -0700
From: "Jeanette Fortin" <jeanette at fortin-home.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <8B8189E77AEE4F0295F2E2389799D2FC at Jeanette>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
i am from the south and honey and sweetie are so much a part of the culture
i have never thougt of it in any other way than normal but have friends from
the midwest and north who find it demeaning and annoying, jeanette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> Ray,
>
> I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear grown
> ups call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are correct this is
> not something done in the north in the same way those terms are used in
> the south. I wasn't offended at all because everyone talks that way to
> everyone else. It was normal and natural there.
>
> I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and sweetie
> are used for small children, animals and people in a socially inferior
> status. Elderly people seem to get a free pass to call anyone under 40
> sweetie. And of course those terms might be appropriate in an intimate
> setting between romantic partners. Waitresses seem to use those terms a
> lot, which I find annoying but as long as they are treating all the
> customers at the same level of annoying I let it go.
>
> HTH
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
>> With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one
>> remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of
>> speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it.
>> However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which
>> is being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of
>> them. My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line,
>> don't get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get
>> used on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the
>> record straight because there is a massive cultural difference which
>> might get lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>>
>>> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
>>> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a
>>> physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I
>>> politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it
>>> did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to
>>> calling me by name.
>>>
>>> Connie
>>> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Diane,
>>>>
>>>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
>>>> particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try.
>>>> Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or
>>>> something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make
>>>> you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the
>>>> long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want
>>>> to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the
>>>> heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in
>>>> either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her
>>>> in the break room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I
>>>> mean you actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and
>>>> frankly say to her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You
>>>> want to talk alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a
>>>> you know what about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure,
>>>> you want the boss involved anyhow, especially if it may involve work
>>>> matters, (as I kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let
>>>> this fester for much too long already. You should have done this
>>>> nearer the beginning of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to
>>>> resolve, you might resort to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>>>
>>>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>
>>>> Skype Name:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>>> >
>>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here
>>>> > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for
>>>> > a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So,
>>>> > I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>>> >
>>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and
>>>> > am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm
>>>> > afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
>>>> > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an
>>>> > effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive,
>>>> > the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact,
>>>> > and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good
>>>> > suggestions here.
>>>> >
>>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I
>>>> > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing
>>>> > out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar
>>>> > treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this
>>>> > treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches
>>>> > back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll
>>>> > just give you the latest example.
>>>> >
>>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
>>>> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
>>>> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
>>>> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other
>>>> > staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was
>>>> > asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but
>>>> > these things add up and happen all the time.
>>>> >
>>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so
>>>> > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for
>>>> > a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie,
>>>> > and using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I
>>>> > have never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I
>>>> > talked to a group of high school students who came to the office a
>>>> > few months ago about my job and what I do, and this same person
>>>> > proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing
>>>> > because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
>>>> >
>>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have
>>>> > been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was
>>>> > making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over
>>>> > these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to
>>>> > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I
>>>> > were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on
>>>> > the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and
>>>> > it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>>>> >
>>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
>>>> > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>>> >
>>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>>> >
>>>> > Diane Graves
>>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>> > 317-232-2647
>>>> >
>>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>>> > George Washington Carver
>>>> >
>>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>>> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>>>> > the individual or entity(ies)
>>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> > be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>>>> > or acting in reliance
>>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>>> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>>>> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>>> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> > blindtlk:
>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-home.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:37:36 -0600
From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net>
To: Jeanette Fortin <jeanette at fortin-home.com>, Blind Talk Mailing
List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <A98A751D-7D62-4E19-B68E-0AF877098E36 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Well, so long as our northern friends don't go throwing a fit every time they come down here. Just kidding, kind of. No. I wanted to clear the air because I didn't want actual cultural differences mudding the waters of what seems to me to be a pretty decent discussion in which we all, I think, agree.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Dec 9, 2010, at 4:30 PM, Jeanette Fortin wrote:
> i am from the south and honey and sweetie are so much a part of the culture i have never thougt of it in any other way than normal but have friends from the midwest and north who find it demeaning and annoying, jeanette
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear grown ups call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are correct this is not something done in the north in the same way those terms are used in the south. I wasn't offended at all because everyone talks that way to everyone else. It was normal and natural there.
>>
>> I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and sweetie are used for small children, animals and people in a socially inferior status. Elderly people seem to get a free pass to call anyone under 40 sweetie. And of course those terms might be appropriate in an intimate setting between romantic partners. Waitresses seem to use those terms a lot, which I find annoying but as long as they are treating all the customers at the same level of annoying I let it go.
>>
>> HTH
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>>
>>
>>> With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it. However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them. My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to calling me by name.
>>>>
>>>> Connie
>>>> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> Diane,
>>>>>
>>>>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for > a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, > I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and > am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm > afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an > effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, > the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, > and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good > suggestions here.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing > out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar > treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this > treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches > back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll > just give you the latest example.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other > staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was > asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but > these things add up and happen all the time.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for > a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, > and using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I > have never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I > talked to a group of high school students who came to the office a > few months ago about my job and what I do, and this same person > proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing > because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have > been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was > making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over > these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I > were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on > the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and > it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Diane Graves
>>>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>> > 317-232-2647
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>>>> > George Washington Carver
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for > the individual or entity(ies)
>>>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, > be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, > or acting in reliance
>>>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > blindtlk:
>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-home.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 18:21:10 -0600
From: Constance Canode <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20101209182035.023e2e90 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Right on Diane. The only person to give orders in my house is me and
occasionally my husband, but not to me...smile.
Connie
At 02:12 PM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>I have to say Pastor Kelm, that I am guilty of losing my Christian
>decorum or frame of mind over this sort of thing. If someone came
>into my house talking about "you just sit down," I'm afraid I
>couldn't resist the urge to say, "you just shut up." Or better yet,
>"you just get out." LOL
>
>
>
>
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>
>"It is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
>
>Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>the individual or entity(ies)
>named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>or acting in reliance
>upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Kelm
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:54 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>Dear friends,
>
> I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
>*smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
>issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
>probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
>this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
>
> I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
>apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her comments.
>If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
>proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
>If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
>home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
>his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
>hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
>proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit down
>and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt yourself,
>so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making dinner
>on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
>conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using the
>oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't let
>you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
>professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
>for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a touch
>of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
>
> I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
>worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for myself.
>She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
>third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
>general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
>because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
>remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We have
>noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if a
>third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
>
> I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
>ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
>dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
>do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
>LOLL
>
>
>Respectfully in Christ,
>Pastor James Kelm
>Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
>www.fcfministry.org
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
>To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
> > I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
> >
> >
> > Gloria Whipple
> > Corresponding Secretary
> > Inland Empire chapter
> > nfb of WA
> >
> > cell number: 509-475-4993
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Constance Canode
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> >
> > Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> > file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> > a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> > honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> > because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> > and resorted to calling me by name.
> >
> > Connie
> > At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> > >Diane,
> > >
> > >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> > >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> > >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> > >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> > >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> > >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> > >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> > >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> > >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> > >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> > >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> > >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> > >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> > >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> > >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> > >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> > >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> > >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> > >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> > >using a formal memorandum or something.
> > >
> > >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> > >
> > >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> > >
> > >Skype Name:
> > >barefootedray
> > >
> > >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Federationists.
> > > >
> > > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > > >
> > > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > > some good suggestions here.
> > > >
> > > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > > >
> > > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > > >
> > > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > > >
> > > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > > >
> > > > Diane Graves
> > > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > > 317-232-2647
> > > >
> > > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > > George Washington Carver
> > > >
> > > > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> > > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
> > > for the individual or entity(ies)
> > > > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> > > recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> > > distribution, or acting in reliance
> > > > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
> > > have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
> > > sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
> > > transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
> > immediately.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > blindtlk mailing list
> > > > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for blindtlk:
> > > >
> > >
> >
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >blindtlk mailing list
> > >blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >for blindtlk:
> >
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcg
> > lobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/fairyfoot%40webban
> > d.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
> >
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for blindtlk:
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 18:35:25 -0600
From: Constance Canode <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net>
To: Jeanette Fortin <jeanette at fortin-home.com>, Blind Talk Mailing
List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20101209183026.023f8e10 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I have been in different areas in the South on many occasions and was
not offended by honey or whatever, but in the workplace, I think it
is quite offensive, especially when done by a male to a woman, to use
those names. I have always been a true womens' lib type person and I
don't think that it is right for a male boss or in my case a
physician with whom I worked to use that type of an endearment. Some
men to it to all women and I am truly offended by that, as in my
mind, it is very condescending. On the other hand, if I am friends
with a person, male or female, it is okay. I agree that wait staff
can be quite annoying with that kind of thing, but I usually just
ignore it as well. However, when in Rome, as they say, do what the
Romans do...smile. I love Southern food, so call me what you will,
especially when seafood is involved.
Connie
At 04:30 PM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>i am from the south and honey and sweetie are so much a part of the
>culture i have never thougt of it in any other way than normal but
>have friends from the midwest and north who find it demeaning and
>annoying, jeanette
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:25 PM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
>>Ray,
>>
>>I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear
>>grown ups call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are
>>correct this is not something done in the north in the same way
>>those terms are used in the south. I wasn't offended at all
>>because everyone talks that way to everyone else. It was normal
>>and natural there.
>>
>>I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and
>>sweetie are used for small children, animals and people in a
>>socially inferior status. Elderly people seem to get a free pass to
>>call anyone under 40 sweetie. And of course those terms might be
>>appropriate in an intimate setting between romantic partners.
>>Waitresses seem to use those terms a lot, which I find annoying but
>>as long as they are treating all the customers at the same level of
>>annoying I let it go.
>>
>>HTH
>>Julie
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:48 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>>
>>
>>>With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to
>>>make one remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an
>>>affectation of speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I
>>>myself might use it. However, am I correct in guessing that this
>>>is not the context to which is being refred? ? IF so, then we
>>>have an issue here with the use of them. My point is simply
>>>this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't get offended
>>>if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used on
>>>you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record
>>>straight because there is a massive cultural difference which
>>>might get lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>>Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>>Skype Name:
>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>>>
>>>>Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might
>>>>want to file a formal complaint. As far as the names are
>>>>concerned, there is a physician where I worked who insisted on
>>>>calling me sweetie or honey. I politely informed him that he
>>>>must have misread my name tag because it did not say either of
>>>>those names on it. He apologized and resorted to calling me by name.
>>>>
>>>>Connie
>>>>At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>Diane,
>>>>>
>>>>>First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
>>>>>particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that
>>>>>a try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an
>>>>>explosion or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to
>>>>>do. That might make you feel good for a very short time, but,
>>>>>frankly, I reckon that in the long term, you come off as a
>>>>>bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do that. Leaves a
>>>>>bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as well. The
>>>>>thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd
>>>>>start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the
>>>>>break room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I
>>>>>mean you actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and
>>>>>frankly say to her that you need to have a serious talk with
>>>>>her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if you since
>>>>>that she's being a you know what about it, you might want to
>>>>>include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
>>>>>especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
>>>>>this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too
>>>>>long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of
>>>>>the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might
>>>>>resort to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>>>>
>>>>>It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>Skype Name:
>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>>On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
>>>>> here > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the
>>>>> same issue for > a good number of years, and my memory is not
>>>>> what it used to be. So, > I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time
>>>>> federationist, and > am someone who has been blind since I was
>>>>> a toddler. Even so, I'm > afraid I still have not mastered the
>>>>> art of dealing with > condescending comments and behavior from
>>>>> my sighted colleagues in an > effective, graceful manner. I
>>>>> tend to have two modes. One is passive, > the other is
>>>>> aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, > and
>>>>> neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good > suggestions here.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is
>>>>> that I > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those
>>>>> who are dishing > out this treatment are people who have likely
>>>>> experienced similar > treatment themselves, or have been
>>>>> commissioned to eradicate this > treatment. Anyway, the list
>>>>> of instances is infinite and stretches > back to the onset of
>>>>> my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll > just give
>>>>> you the latest example.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each
>>>>> staff > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I
>>>>> informed the > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she
>>>>> asked me "Oh, are you > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I
>>>>> would bet my life that no other > staff person who signed up to
>>>>> bring a dish (virtually all of us) was > asked this question.
>>>>> Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but > these things add
>>>>> up and happen all the time.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
>>>>> desk so > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or
>>>>> sign a card for > a staff member or whatever. She is always
>>>>> calling me "honey/sweetie, > and using a tone that one might
>>>>> use when talking with a child. ." I > have never heard her talk
>>>>> to another staff person in this way. I > talked to a group of
>>>>> high school students who came to the office a > few months ago
>>>>> about my job and what I do, and this same person > proceeded to
>>>>> tell me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing > because I
>>>>> can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
>>>>> have > been told that people were just "trying to help," and
>>>>> that I was > making too much out of things. I have also had
>>>>> major melt downs over > these types of things before, and
>>>>> caused myself to be alienated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just
>>>>> want to > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked
>>>>> down to as if I > were a child or somehow less capable. It
>>>>> wouldn't be appropriate on > the basis of race, national origin
>>>>> or any other protected class, and > it isn't appropriate on the
>>>>> basis of blindness either.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this >
>>>>> effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Diane Graves
>>>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>> > 317-232-2647
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>>>> > George Washington Carver
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may
>>>>> contain > confidential and/or legally privileged information
>>>>> intended only for > the individual or entity(ies)
>>>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient, > be advised that any unauthorized disclosure,
>>>>> copying, distribution, > or acting in reliance
>>>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If
>>>>> you have > received this E-mail transmission in error, please
>>>>> reply to sender to > arrange for the return and proper delivery
>>>>> of the transmission. > Subsequently, delete the message from
>>>>> your system immediately.
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for > blindtlk:
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>info for blindtlk:
>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>for blindtlk:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for blindtlk:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>blindtlk mailing list
>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>for blindtlk:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-home.com
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for blindtlk:
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------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:52:04 -0900
From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <4d0187cf.8e4ee50a.26c7.6a82 at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When folks call me those "terms of indearment," I ask them point blank if
they call all of the other folks that as well. Most of the time, they get
the hint.
Bonnie Lucas
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 13:25
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Ray,
I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear grown ups
call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are correct this is not
something done in the north in the same way those terms are used in the
south. I wasn't offended at all because everyone talks that way to
everyone else. It was normal and natural there.
I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and sweetie are
used for small children, animals and people in a socially inferior status.
Elderly people seem to get a free pass to call anyone under 40 sweetie. And
of course those terms might be appropriate in an intimate setting between
romantic partners. Waitresses seem to use those terms a lot, which I find
annoying but as long as they are treating all the customers at the same
level of annoying I let it go.
HTH
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one
> remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of
> speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it.
> However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is
> being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them.
> My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't
> get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used
> on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record
> straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get
> lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>
>> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
>> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a
>> physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I
>> politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it
>> did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to
>> calling me by name.
>>
>> Connie
>> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>> Diane,
>>>
>>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
>>> particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try.
>>> Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or
>>> something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you
>>> feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long
>>> term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do
>>> that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as
>>> well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd
>>> start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break
>>> room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you
>>> actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to
>>> her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk
>>> alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what
>>> about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the
>>> boss involved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I
>>> kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for
>>> much too long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning
>>> of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort
>>> to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>> >
>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here
>>> > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for a
>>> > good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, I'm
>>> > hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>> >
>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and
>>> > am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm
>>> > afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with condescending
>>> > comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an effective,
>>> > graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, the other
>>> > is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, and neither
>>> > is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions here.
>>> >
>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I
>>> > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing
>>> > out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar
>>> > treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this
>>> > treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches
>>> > back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll
>>> > just give you the latest example.
>>> >
>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
>>> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
>>> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
>>> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other
>>> > staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was
>>> > asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but
>>> > these things add up and happen all the time.
>>> >
>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so
>>> > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for a
>>> > staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, and
>>> > using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I have
>>> > never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I talked to
>>> > a group of high school students who came to the office a few months
>>> > ago about my job and what I do, and this same person proceeded to tell
>>> > me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing because I can tell a
>>> > group of kids what I do for a living?
>>> >
>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have
>>> > been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was
>>> > making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over
>>> > these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>>> >
>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to
>>> > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I were
>>> > a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on the
>>> > basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and it
>>> > isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this effectively?
>>> > Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>> >
>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>> >
>>> > Diane Graves
>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> > 317-232-2647
>>> >
>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>> > George Washington Carver
>>> >
>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>>> > the individual or entity(ies)
>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>>> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>>> > acting in reliance
>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>>> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > blindtlk:
>>> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcgl
obal.net
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 20:53:37 CST
From: "Robert A.Hansen" <roberthansen33 at yahoo.com>
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <127321.77361.qm at smtp107-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sometimes i am called these by hispanic women
-----Original Message-----
Date: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:27:54 pm
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Ray,
I vacationed in New Orleans about a year ago. It was odd to hear grown ups
call each other honey, sweetie and the like. You are correct this is not
something done in the north in the same way those terms are used in the
south. I wasn't offended at all because everyone talks that way to
everyone else. It was normal and natural there.
I have always lived in the Midwest. Here, terms like honey and sweetie are
used for small children, animals and people in a socially inferior status.
Elderly people seem to get a free pass to call anyone under 40 sweetie. And
of course those terms might be appropriate in an intimate setting between
romantic partners. Waitresses seem to use those terms a lot, which I find
annoying but as long as they are treating all the customers at the same
level of annoying I let it go.
HTH
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 201
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 21:18:25 CST
From: "Robert A.Hansen" <roberthansen33 at yahoo.com>
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <500878.44783.qm at smtp102-mob.biz.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have challenged this to people and they are put off by that concept.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:45:00 pm
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
From: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Dear Diane,
It is ironic of just how many people will be totally offensive to a
blind person, all under the name of "only being kind"! I often think what
society's opinion would be, if we substituted another minority in the place
of a blind person. "I am amazed that a black person is able to do that
job", or "I don't think that a Jewish person should be able to live on their
own". For me personally, I can't imagine that anyone would allow a woman to
attempt to be independent! LOLL
Now that I have sturred up the pot, I will close this E-mail! *smile*
And remember all of you who are Hispanic... I am only trying to help!
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I have to say Pastor Ke
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 08:22:33 -0500
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID:
<355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433011C96316B9 at IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Ray,
I completely understand this. I acknowledge that there are some people who just talk that way. Everybody is honey sweetie, baby and on and on. There is a woman in our own chapter who uses those terms of endearment for almost everyone she speaks too. She is a really good friend, and I have no problem with this whatsoever. She isn't doing it because I am blind/inferior. She is blind too, and that's just the way she talks to people.
But then there are those who reserve those terms of endearment for children, and the blind or those that they perceive to be inferior. They typically don't speak to other adults in that manner. Those are the people with whom I have major problems. Those are the people who need to "get a clue."
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:49 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it. However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them. My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
Skype Name:
barefootedray
On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to calling me by name.
>
> Connie
> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>> Diane,
>>
>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss invo
lved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to using a formal memorandum or something.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype Name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hello Federationists.
>> >
>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>> >
>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions here.
>> >
>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
>> >
>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
>> >
>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
>> >
>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>> >
>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>> >
>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>> >
>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>> >
>> > Diane Graves
>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> > 317-232-2647
>> >
>> > "It is service that measures success."
>> > George Washington Carver
>> >
>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/satin-bear%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
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------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:40:05 -0700
From: "Judy Jones" <jtj1 at cableone.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <FD733276979C46EBA8B9688321FD7364 at judyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi, Diane,
This is very interesting, but if handled correctly, may win you a good
friend.
It's really hard to give firm advice, not really knowing this other person,
but maybe you could take her aside, maybe both go for lunch, or a coffee
break together. Then seriously talk to her. Put her in the best light so
her defenses won't go up. Example, "We've known each other a long time,
and I know you have the best of intentions, but this is how you come across
to me? If I'm misunderstanding, please correct me, but we're both competent
independent adults, and should treat each other that way." She may not
realize she's doing this.
The less serious, of course, is to kid someone out of an attitude like that.
The others, of course, you already mentioned is to do what you did, and I've
done this, too. Not react, and hope your example of living will do the
trick. I've found usually this works but not always, like you said.
A couple of years ago, I made the decision that a friend and I needed to
part company, because, as much as she was a friend, there was a part of her
that couldn't quite let go of the perception of me not quite being as estute
or on top of things because of blindness. I realized that she just would
never get it, no matter what I did or didn't do. I had talked with her
seriously before, but she seemingly blew me off. What helped this break to
occur naturally was that she was going out of town for a month at about the
same time we were moving to another part of town.
Because this is a coworker you have to be around, a serious talk may be in
order, but if you can find out what is making her tick, what's driving this
behavior, a lot of light may be shed on her attitude. Maybe she's insecure
and really needs a friend herself.
Also, this person may, believe it or not, be unaware she's reacting this
way. Some honest talk should hellp not to bottle emotions up, turning into
destructive anger.
Hope all this helps, and would love to hear the outcome.
Judy
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 08:41:14 -0500
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID:
<355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433011C96316BA at IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
James,
Thank you. You are exactly right. It wouldn't be acceptable, and it shouldn't be acceptable, but, when it comes to the blind, we are just supposed to sit back and take it. This is what makes me so angry, particularly in a civil rights setting.
In response to Ray's question, I am very comfortable with my blindness. It is other people who are not. My problem is not with my blindness, it is with steadfastly maintaining my dignity when others insist on assuming that I am inferior, and making me appear that way to others.
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James Kelm
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:33 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Dear Diane,
It is ironic of just how many people will be totally offensive to a
blind person, all under the name of "only being kind"! I often think what
society's opinion would be, if we substituted another minority in the place
of a blind person. "I am amazed that a black person is able to do that
job", or "I don't think that a Jewish person should be able to live on their
own". For me personally, I can't imagine that anyone would allow a woman to
attempt to be independent! LOLL
Now that I have sturred up the pot, I will close this E-mail! *smile*
And remember all of you who are Hispanic... I am only trying to help!
Respectfully in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> I have to say Pastor Kelm, that I am guilty of losing my Christian decorum
or frame of mind over this sort of thing. If someone came into my house
talking about "you just sit down," I'm afraid I couldn't resist the urge to
say, "you just shut up." Or better yet, "you just get out." LOL
>
>
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Kelm
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I just thought that I would jump in here and give my two cents worth.
> *smile* I like all of the comments on this topic! I once discussed this
> issue of patronizing comments with my brother, but he said that I was
> probably being overly sensitive, and that he didn't think that people did
> this kind of thing too often. Of course he is not blind! LOLL
>
> I have a neighbor who lives in an apartment next to my wife's and my
> apartment. This woman is very sweet, but drives me crazy with her
comments.
> If I am heading to the elevator to go to my apartment, she will run
> proclaiming "he's blind, and someone needs to help him with the buttons".
> If my wife goes out of town to visit her family for a few days and I stay
> home to do work, this neighbor will say things like "that isn't right that
> his wife leaves him home alone... How will he eat, and what if he gets
> hurt?" Once this lady came over to our apartment for a brief visit, and
> proceeded to order me around inside of my own apartment. "You just sit
down
> and let your wife do that... I'm so afraid you are going to hurt
yourself,
> so just sit down." Once I made a comment to a friend about me making
dinner
> on a particular day, and this woman actually interjected herself into our
> conversation to say, "Does the apartment manager know that you are using
the
> oven? That's kind of scary for the rest of us, and your wife shouldn't
let
> you do that kind of stuff!" Now keep in mind that I am a 49 year old
> professional, who is rather independent by nature. I actually lived alone
> for 18 years before being married to my wonderful wife! I also have a
touch
> of the old male ego, and don't like to be treated like a child!
>
> I have very gently made comments to this lady that she doesn't have to
> worry, and while I appreciate her concern, I am able to look out for
myself.
> She says that I'm so sweet, but she doesn't get it! We have found that a
> third person, in this case my wife, can help a lot. My wife will make
> general comments such as "I am really happy that James cooked last night,
> because he is a really good cook, and I could relax". Or, my wife will
> remark about some other aspect that our neighbor has commented on. We
have
> noticed that this has helped. If I comment, I will be dismissed. But if
a
> third person makes observations, then sometimes it will sink in.
>
> I hope that all of you sweeties are having a nice day, and are getting
> ready for Christmas. As for me, I will be sitting in my recliner and day
> dreaming, because folks such as us must be realistic and make sure that we
> do not injure our selves by walking, talking, or by God forbid, cooking!
> LOLL
>
>
> Respectfully in Christ,
> Pastor James Kelm
> Foundational "Christian Family Ministry
> www.fcfministry.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria Whipple" <fairyfoot at webband.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
>
> > I agree with Diane. That is a very good come back.
> >
> >
> > Gloria Whipple
> > Corresponding Secretary
> > Inland Empire chapter
> > nfb of WA
> >
> > cell number: 509-475-4993
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Constance Canode
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 8:53 AM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> >
> > Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
> > file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is
> > a physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or
> > honey. I politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag
> > because it did not say either of those names on it. He apologized
> > and resorted to calling me by name.
> >
> > Connie
> > At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
> > >Diane,
> > >
> > >First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
> > >particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a
> > >try. Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion
> > >or something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might
> > >make you feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon
> > >that in the long term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you
> > >really do not want to do that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth;
> > >and, frankly, on the heart as well. The thing of it is, YOu don't
> > >want to just give in either. I'd start with a nice quiet chat. I
> > >don't mean just get her in the break room or over by the water
> > >cooler for a second or so. I mean you actually need to schedule her
> > >in for an appointment and frankly say to her that you need to have a
> > >serious talk with her. You want to talk alone, if possible; but, if
> > >you since that she's being a you know what about it, you might want
> > >to include the boss. For sure, you want the boss involved anyhow,
> > >especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of suspect
> > >this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> > >already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the
> > >issue. IF the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to
> > >using a formal memorandum or something.
> > >
> > >It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
> > >
> > >Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
> > >
> > >Skype Name:
> > >barefootedray
> > >
> > >On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Federationists.
> > > >
> > > > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question
> > > here before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same
> > > issue for a good number of years, and my memory is not what it used
> > > to be. So, I'm hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
> > > >
> > > > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist,
> > > and am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so,
> > > I'm afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with
> > > condescending comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in
> > > an effective, graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is
> > > passive, the other is aggressive. Each of these modes has a
> > > negative impact, and neither is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get
> > > some good suggestions here.
> > > >
> > > > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that
> > > I work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are
> > > dishing out this treatment are people who have likely experienced
> > > similar treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to
> > > eradicate this treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is
> > > infinite and stretches back to the onset of my blindness, but, in
> > > the interest of time, I'll just give you the latest example.
> > > >
> > > > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
> > > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
> > > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
> > > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no
> > > other staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of
> > > us) was asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit
> > > minor, but these things add up and happen all the time.
> > > >
> > > > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my
> > > desk so that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a
> > > card for a staff member or whatever. She is always calling me
> > > "honey/sweetie, and using a tone that one might use when talking
> > > with a child. ." I have never heard her talk to another staff
> > > person in this way. I talked to a group of high school students who
> > > came to the office a few months ago about my job and what I do, and
> > > this same person proceeded to tell me how very amazing I was. What?
> > > I'm amazing because I can tell a group of kids what I do for a living?
> > > >
> > > > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and
> > > have been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I
> > > was making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs
> > > over these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want
> > > to be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if
> > > I were a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate
> > > on the basis of race, national origin or any other protected class,
> > > and it isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this
> > > effectively? Any feedback would really be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
> > > >
> > > > Diane Graves
> > > > Civil Rights Specialist
> > > > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > > > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > > > 317-232-2647
> > > >
> > > > "It is service that measures success."
> > > > George Washington Carver
> > > >
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------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 06:44:03 -0700
From: "Judy Jones" <jtj1 at cableone.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
Message-ID: <C36A77830C954D7AB7480C354E8C6B55 at judyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes, I knew a lady that way.
She was the principal of my daughters' school. The first time she told me I
was so amazing, I thought, oh brother, here we go. Then I observed her with
others, kids and adults alike, and she truly has a heart for everyone,
thinking everyone has an amazing ability, gift, some personality trait, etc.
She is as sincere as can be in her praise of others, and over the years, she
has become quite a treasure to me. Who wouldn't like to have such an
affirming person in their life!
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
> Hi Ray,
>
> I completely understand this. I acknowledge that there are some people who
> just talk that way. Everybody is honey sweetie, baby and on and on.
> There is a woman in our own chapter who uses those terms of endearment for
> almost everyone she speaks too. She is a really good friend, and I have no
> problem with this whatsoever. She isn't doing it because I am
> blind/inferior. She is blind too, and that's just the way she talks to
> people.
>
> But then there are those who reserve those terms of endearment for
> children, and the blind or those that they perceive to be inferior. They
> typically don't speak to other adults in that manner. Those are the people
> with whom I have major problems. Those are the people who need to "get a
> clue."
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
> in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 4:49 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Needing Feedback and Support
>
> With respect to names like Honey and Sweetie, I should like to make one
> remark. Down here in the South, this tends to be an affectation of
> speaking we use; so, that's the context in which I myself might use it.
> However, am I correct in guessing that this is not the context to which is
> being refred? ? IF so, then we have an issue here with the use of them.
> My point is simply this. To those north of the Mason dixon line, don't
> get offended if you're down here in thees parts and those names get used
> on you. That's just our way of speaking. I wanted to set the record
> straight because there is a massive cultural difference which might get
> lost and perhaps be misunderstood here.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype Name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Constance Canode wrote:
>
>> Diane, I agree with Ray. If the chat doesn't work, you might want to
>> file a formal complaint. As far as the names are concerned, there is a
>> physician where I worked who insisted on calling me sweetie or honey. I
>> politely informed him that he must have misread my name tag because it
>> did not say either of those names on it. He apologized and resorted to
>> calling me by name.
>>
>> Connie
>> At 09:37 AM 12/9/2010, you wrote:
>>> Diane,
>>>
>>> First things first. Have you tried a nice quiet chat with this
>>> particular antagonist? Seems to me it's high time you gave that a try.
>>> Sure, you don't want to go blowing up at her like an explosion or
>>> something. Now, that would be wrong for you to do. That might make you
>>> feel good for a very short time, but, frankly, I reckon that in the long
>>> term, you come off as a bitch. I suppose you really do not want to do
>>> that. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth; and, frankly, on the heart as
>>> well. The thing of it is, YOu don't want to just give in either. I'd
>>> start with a nice quiet chat. I don't mean just get her in the break
>>> room or over by the water cooler for a second or so. I mean you
>>> actually need to schedule her in for an appointment and frankly say to
>>> her that you need to have a serious talk with her. You want to talk
>>> alone, if possible; but, if you since that she's being a you know what
>>> about it, you might want to include the boss. For sure, you want the
>>> boss invo
> lved anyhow, especially if it may involve work matters, (as I kind of
> suspect this might). Seems to me you've let this fester for much too long
> already. You should have done this nearer the beginning of the issue. IF
> the nice quiet chat fails to resolve, you might resort to using a formal
> memorandum or something.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see what others have to say.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now A Very Proud and very happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype Name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Dec 9, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hello Federationists.
>>> >
>>> > First of all, let me apologize if I have posted this question here
>>> > before. I have been on the list, and dealing with the same issue for a
>>> > good number of years, and my memory is not what it used to be. So, I'm
>>> > hoping I'm not being repetitious, but here we go.
>>> >
>>> > Most of you who know me know that I am a long time federationist, and
>>> > am someone who has been blind since I was a toddler. Even so, I'm
>>> > afraid I still have not mastered the art of dealing with condescending
>>> > comments and behavior from my sighted colleagues in an effective,
>>> > graceful manner. I tend to have two modes. One is passive, the other
>>> > is aggressive. Each of these modes has a negative impact, and neither
>>> > is appropriate. I'm hoping I can get some good suggestions here.
>>> >
>>> > The ironic thing about this as it relates to my coworkers is that I
>>> > work for a local civil rights agency. Some of those who are dishing
>>> > out this treatment are people who have likely experienced similar
>>> > treatment themselves, or have been commissioned to eradicate this
>>> > treatment. Anyway, the list of instances is infinite and stretches
>>> > back to the onset of my blindness, but, in the interest of time, I'll
>>> > just give you the latest example.
>>> >
>>> > The office is having a holiday pitch-in on Friday and each staff
>>> > member was asked to sign up and bring a dish. When I informed the
>>> > coordinator that I would be baking bread, she asked me "Oh, are you
>>> > sure you want to cook?" Duhhh? Now I would bet my life that no other
>>> > staff person who signed up to bring a dish (virtually all of us) was
>>> > asked this question. Even as I say it, it sounds a bit minor, but
>>> > these things add up and happen all the time.
>>> >
>>> > This same person is always volunteering to bring things to my desk so
>>> > that I don't have to come to her and pick them up or sign a card for a
>>> > staff member or whatever. She is always calling me "honey/sweetie, and
>>> > using a tone that one might use when talking with a child. ." I have
>>> > never heard her talk to another staff person in this way. I talked to
>>> > a group of high school students who came to the office a few months
>>> > ago about my job and what I do, and this same person proceeded to tell
>>> > me how very amazing I was. What? I'm amazing because I can tell a
>>> > group of kids what I do for a living?
>>> >
>>> > I have tried to talk to others about the treatment before and have
>>> > been told that people were just "trying to help," and that I was
>>> > making too much out of things. I have also had major melt downs over
>>> > these types of things before, and caused myself to be alienated.
>>> >
>>> > I don't want to be alienated. I want to have friends. I just want to
>>> > be viewed and treated as an equal, and not talked down to as if I were
>>> > a child or somehow less capable. It wouldn't be appropriate on the
>>> > basis of race, national origin or any other protected class, and it
>>> > isn't appropriate on the basis of blindness either.
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, how do the rest of you deal with things like this effectively?
>>> > Any feedback would really be appreciated.
>>> >
>>> > [cid:image002.gif at 01CB977C.AE939EC0]
>>> >
>>> > Diane Graves
>>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> > 317-232-2647
>>> >
>>> > "It is service that measures success."
>>> > George Washington Carver
>>> >
>>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>> > confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>>> > the individual or entity(ies)
>>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>>> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
>>> > acting in reliance
>>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>>> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > blindtlk mailing list
>>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > blindtlk:
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40att.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> blindtlk:
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>>
>>
>>
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