[Blindtlk] inferiority complex???

Thu Jun 3 07:53:03 UTC 2010

Good for you that you ended up being successful. However, I am drawing
a line between that and computers. I want to make it uniquely
individual in my approach compared to that of another with their
challenges and how they have overcome them. I appreciate your
inspirational letter of enquiry but there are other things like your
leg that happen that mare just if not as deep as that injury that are
just as challenging. I'm reading into what the big deal is in the
initial construct of how compilers interprete knowledge and images and
such in a visual way like MIT and other universities are working on
such to make it more accessible to the blind programmer. While I
appreciate the letter, all things cannot be drived from your story.

On 6/3/10, Marty James <blindamp at q.com> wrote:
> I am not sure what the big deal is, I lost my leg and my eyes at the same
> time and said how can I use this to my advantage...
> I was a graphic designer when I went blind so there is a little adjusting
> but I came up with a plan. I am now the owner of a company called The Blind
> Bean and I sell some of the best coffee beans in the country from all over
> the world. In fact, I am exhibiting at the NFB Convention this year, I hope
> you come by and see me!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 10:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority
> complexwithdisabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>
>
>> On 6/2/10, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>> Peter:
>>>
>>> It strikes me that you're having a whale of a good time thinking of
>>> things a
>>> blind person *cannot* do. Tell me: do you really enjoy sitting on your
>>> posterior all day crying: "Woe is me?" Snap out of it. Were you to come
>>> to
>>> the NFB convention in Dallas, I bet I could introduce you to two or three
>>> farmers (which is two or three more farmers who are blind than sighted
>>> ones
>>> I know) and one of the members of the Board of Directors was a derry
>>> farmer
>>> for some time and may still do a bit of it.
>>>
>>> Stop thinking of what blind folks *can't* do and start thinking: "What am
>>> *I* going to do with my life? What am I interested in? How much time,
>>> effort
>>> and energy am I willing to put into that interest?"
>>>
>>>
>>> Grab the world by the short hairs and tell it who's boss!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 5:25 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority
>>> complexwithdisabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>
>>>
>>>> Julie:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   How many blind people are farmers? I bet not even a percent and I
>>>> bet they have firm rootxs from generation to generation within their
>>>> church. So, the family of massive wealth resources also helps as well.
>>>> They grow their own food and can be able. How well can they see? Do
>>>> they have a spouse or other relative nearby? I know of this cause I
>>>> know someone in a simular situation with his own acrage and has his
>>>> sister to help out tremendously. Not all of us have relatives alive
>>>> anymore or if so aren't functionally able to do so. I am just saying.
>>>>
>>>> On 6/2/10, Julie J <julielj at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>> What happens to the blind people who want to be farmers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just sayin' public transportation isn't the miracle cure for
>>>>> everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:06 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complexwith
>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to take responsibility and move to areas where there is
>>>>>> adequate
>>>>>> public transportation!
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:00 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If personal responsability was a mantra strong enough how come it is
>>>>>>> that blind people in particilar are not gainfully employed? Some
>>>>>>> areas
>>>>>>> don't facilitate transportation and I have been around virtually all
>>>>>>> types of blind people. There is a good number that can't get hired
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> private companies in particilar go against it  like Goergia Pacific
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> have halfway commitments like car plants. Then, government layoffs as
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>    Another thing is that many legallly blind people post about an
>>>>>>> almost completely blind prospective. Perhaps some of this can be
>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>> However, I've ran across plenty of blind people in my opinion that
>>>>>>> have people pick up after them. I mean that it's not as independent
>>>>>>> cause they don't want to be or people pity them too much. There are
>>>>>>> limitations even with the best accessability and acknowledging them
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a good realistic approach. Then, my interests and dislikes and I've
>>>>>>> done that. I've researched these areas and what it boils down to is
>>>>>>> insecurity with being blind.
>>>>>>>    About my local NFB branch. Since Mike Jones has been away for a
>>>>>>> unknown set time to Hawaii to the last time I've heard that Auburn's
>>>>>>> NFB is nothing? It's mainly in bigger cities. How do you meet blind
>>>>>>> people then? The Program for Students with Disabilities isn't a
>>>>>>> social
>>>>>>> networking site unfortunately. It is okay via e-mail and I have ran
>>>>>>> into three blind people here just one has left and that is about it.
>>>>>>>    What would you do about choosing to change your major into
>>>>>>> something with more creativity or teaching that you won't be
>>>>>>> complained about doing cause they have already paid so much?
>>>>>>> Initially
>>>>>>> when I started college I wanted to be a lawyer but I realize they is
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> element of corruption and huge sin risks by word scrambling to suit
>>>>>>> your own agenda that I don't like at all. So, the psychology field,
>>>>>>> history and political science all weren't what I wanted. There is
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> initative to get math and science students at Auburn to do that
>>>>>>> stuff.
>>>>>>>    I have to take calculus 1 and or calculus 2 but I don't know
>>>>>>> neimith code. How logn do you think it could take someone with
>>>>>>> virtually no experience to learn the basics for that course? I might
>>>>>>> just get a tutor though and do it that way. If there is computer
>>>>>>> scientists on the list just e-mail me. I don't beleieve that blind
>>>>>>> people have to do all of this calculus information like some have
>>>>>>> fabricated though. Arrogance is hard to deal with supposedly
>>>>>>> successful blind people. I owuld like to own my own company!
>>>>>>> note: thanks to all of you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/2/10, Hyde, David W. (ESC) <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Peter, I started to reply several times. Gary and Steve both make
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> points. They said the things I wanted to say. Let me add that I know
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> wouldn't have had the type of encouragement I have had were it not
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> blind. I have had the boone of meeting more successful people than
>>>>>>>> most,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> finding that they are willing to share their secrets (mostly hard
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> techniques that make sense once you learn them) with me. They then
>>>>>>>> expected
>>>>>>>> me to pass them on to others. I have learned to try my best.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You sound like a fellow who has a number of things going on at the
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> time. Please don't try to solve them all at once. If you can
>>>>>>>> prioritize
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> needs (it's hard, but it is the only way to get them all down) and
>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> them one at a time, you can see some progress. I think the hardest
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> me to learn, and to explain is that it is acceptable to fail. It
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>> mean that you are less of a person. Everyone fails at something. I
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> trying new things, and I do some of them well, and some of them
>>>>>>>> badly.
>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>> interesting to see which I learn the most from.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Find some blind people who you like in your area. Find some who will
>>>>>>>> teach
>>>>>>>> you the things that they do. None of us would have planed to be
>>>>>>>> blind,
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> we a choice. Since we didn't, some of us are happy, successful, and
>>>>>>>> satisfied with life anyway. As I write, I remember a book I recently
>>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> a fellow named Mike May. Mike now runs Sendero Group, doing GPS
>>>>>>>> systems.
>>>>>>>> He's a nice guy, and I met him long before he was successful. The
>>>>>>>> book
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> called Crashing Through. I found it interesting in that Michael is a
>>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> just never learned to fail. He failed until he found ways to
>>>>>>>> succeed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't know if this helps or not. Please let us know how you're
>>>>>>>> doing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Dewey Bradley
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Garry makes some very good points indeed.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>>>>>>> To: "'Gary Wunder'" <gwunder at earthlink.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing
>>>>>>>> List'"
>>>>>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:04 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gary makes some very good points here as well. It would simply be
>>>>>>>>> untrue for me to tell you that there are no advantages to being
>>>>>>>>> sighted, or disadvantages to being blind. Just as there are
>>>>>>>>> advantages
>>>>>>>>> to having money, v. not  having as much. If Bill Gates decides that
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> wants to order a pizza on a Friday night for dinner, he doesn't
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to stop and think about whether or not he can afford it the way
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The point is though, that there are ways around most of these
>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>> We find those ways, most of them are not insurmountable,  and we
>>>>>>>>> lead
>>>>>>>>> productive and full lives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:25 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with disability vs
>>>>>>>>> nondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peter, you have asked many questions and I am certain in one
>>>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> can't begin to response to them all. Even this assumes I know all
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> answers, which I most certainly do not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I throw out these ideas and observations with the suggestion that
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> take what you like and leave the rest. It does no good to compare
>>>>>>>>> yourself with what you might have been. In the first place, you
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know what you might have been. I might be angry because my Dad was
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> owner of a successful construction business which I could have run
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> might be far better off financially than I am now. Without sight, I
>>>>>>>>> can't run the heavy equipment so perhaps I should be angry. Because
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> am blind, I traveled a different road, went to college, got a
>>>>>>>>> degree,
>>>>>>>>> and work as a computer programmer. That college experience
>>>>>>>>> introduced
>>>>>>>>> me to good books, to different thoughts about the world, and to a
>>>>>>>>> tolerance of other people I'd never have gotten had I stayed at
>>>>>>>>> home.
>>>>>>>>> Which life is the better? Unfortunately this is a question without
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> answer. I have to make of my life what is possible, without
>>>>>>>>> spending
>>>>>>>>> too much time grieving about some alternative future.
>>>>>>>>> In your note you acknowledge a lot of problems. Acknowledging one
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> a problem is often the first step on the road to solving it, but
>>>>>>>>> sometimes that acknowledgement is simply a way of stating the
>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>> and the more we state it, the more we come to like the way we say
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> We grow accustomed to the burden of that problem, and rather than
>>>>>>>>> using our admission to solve it, we carry it like a badge of honor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In my own work, I can tell you that blineness makes many things
>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>> which others find easy. They see computer screens and what is
>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>> from them is obvious. I hear computer screens and have to often
>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>> pretty hard to figure out what is wanted and where I am on the
>>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>>> I can make a real case for how disadvantaged this makes me, but the
>>>>>>>>> more important thing is that I figure it out and be productive
>>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>> I can bring home a pay check.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You talk about the country in which you were born. There may be
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> countries in which to be blind, but I am certain the majority are
>>>>>>>>> worse.
>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> your country you have the opportunity to make a contract with our
>>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>>> That contract says that we, all of us, will help you with training
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> equipment if, in return, you will try your hardest to take that
>>>>>>>>> equipment and training and put it to a productive use - preferably
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> use which will pay you. You will then pay taxes, buy a home,
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> your local businesses, not to mention Wal-Mart, and everyone wins.
>>>>>>>>> Winning isn't easy, but it is far easier than carrying around the
>>>>>>>>> anger for what you might have been if only you had tried.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take your anger and, if you can, turn it into resolve. Look at your
>>>>>>>>> situation, acknowledge there are disadvantages, and at the same
>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>> determine how you can benefit from where you find yourself. If you
>>>>>>>>> constantly live with the dream of driving the car you once had,
>>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>>> be disappointed. If you live with the dream of the dcar which may
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>> to be if we who are blind work together, then your sadness may just
>>>>>>>>> become a tool for hope.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wish you all the luck in the world, and where luck stops and
>>>>>>>>> personal responsibility begins, I wish you the courage to take it
>>>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40ic
>>>>>>>>> rc.in.gov
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dewey.bradle
>>>>>>>>> y%40att.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>> Webmaster
>>>>>>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>>>>>>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>>>>>>> alternative e-mail
>>>>>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40insightbb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter
>>>> Webmaster
>>>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>>>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>>>> alternative e-mail
>>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> blindtlk:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>> Webmaster
>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>> alternative e-mail
>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>
>> If you read all of my posts you would understand that I am not making
>> up excuses. I have as an attestament to that being an individual not
>> as a group. I want to brainstorm with people Mike. Do you understand?
>> What are you guys's reading comprehension? I'm wondering cause I've
>> not stayed on the excuse bit just merely introduced my unique problems
>> to you. However. on here people are  mis informed on what I said.
>>    I know that blind people have done programming and such. I want to
>> know how they began that is all. I want updated practices like I have
>> mentioned getting in contact with AFB Mentors on this same post. I
>> have posted a second thread as well. Dude if you can't understand that
>> I can't see how any of you got degrees seriously. I asked specific
>> questions posted by blind professions with no answers on specifics to
>> get started and understanding realistic approaches to complicated
>> problems. Why can't you guys understand this?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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-- 
Peter
Webmaster
http://www.darkstruggle.com
webmaster at darkstruggle.com
alternative e-mail
sunspot005 at gmail.com