[Blindtlk] Blind Programmers

[Steve Jacobson]

Peter,

Some of the responses you have received have been what one might call the "unvarnished truth" but many others have been a serious attempt to help.  My 
response early on in this thread was certainly an honest attempt to help.  "Malice and neglect" are pretty strong accusations to make, especially when you also said 
that you had some trouble replying.  One of the things we're trying to work through with our server is that sometimes messages get delayed, and it isn't uncommon to 
receive messages out of order.  This can make discussions like this difficult since sometimes people answer questions or make statements that have already been 
made.  We need all to be patient when engage in a sensitive discussion like this.  If you are having specific problems replying to messages, Dave Andrews might be 
able to help, or I am glad to take a look as well.  We use very common listserve software, though, so I don't know why you are having issues with replying.

Peter, if you truly believe that no other blind person has experienced what you have experienced and that whatever we say doesn't apply to you, then there really 
isn't much we can do to help.  Each of us is unique, there is truth to that, but as blind people we do have a great deal in common, too.  No single one of us can 
completely claim to have the same background as you do, but each of us has experienced some part of what you have experienced.  I also know people whose 
background is very similar to yours, even if not exactly.  Believ me, I truly do feel for you.  However, what are my choices?  I could agree with you and maybe even 
tell you that you should just give up and collect SSI, that things are hopeless, that blindness cannot be overcome, that you have been dealt an impossible deck of 
cards.  But what if I did that?  What good does it do to tell you things that don't really help you or that just confirm what you might already think?  It doesn't do you 
any good at all.  So, I and some others are not trying to say it is easy nor are any of us trying to tell you that choices are always easy to make.  What we do know 
though, is that if we want something out of life, it is in the end up to each of us to figure out how to get around the obstacles that are in our path.  As an organization, 
we can collectively try to change things for blind people, and many of us work very hard to do that, but on the personal level, right now, each of us knows that we 
can't plan our lives hoping that things will be better next year.  This is what many of us are trying to explain.  Nothing can change what you have already 
experienced, but each of us has at least some ability to change where we go.  There is a difference between public transit in large cities than in small towns, but 
there are many blind people who have the same challenge of dealing with small town transportation.  I didn't grow up in a town as small as yours, but I went to a 
large city to college because, in part, of the transportation.  Still, public transportation doesn't always work.  Some of us make difficult choices because we think our 
chances will be better having made them.  Choices can be scarey, though, and it can help to have people who can cheer you on..

I am not meaning to ignore the other parts of your note regarding programming here.  It is not real clear to me what you are asking, and some of the questions you 
might have may be better handled on a list that has more to do with computers.  I've written to you a little before, though, although it was some time back about 
programming.  Frankly, it is a more difficult field to enter as a blind person now than it was a few decades ago.  However, if you have a tallent and are interested in 
that field, tallent and interest can carry you a long way toward success.  Your requirements, though, leave me out as someone you are willing to listen to.  While I 
don't have illusions that I have magic answers for you, I think more of your questions are related to being blind than actually programming.  From what I have seen, it 
is difficult to make a fulltime living from web design without working for a company.  If you work for a company, you have to conform to their requirements.  Some 
people make some money by becoming good at writing Window-Eyes and JFW scripts.  There is some money to be made there because sometimes scripts have to 
be written to keep people employed, but this demands more than just writing scripts.  One has to learn enough about the software for which one writes the scripts to 
understand what to do.  This can sometimes mean that you need someone sighted to tell you what is really happening on the screen and it means that you might 
have to occasionally be able to travel to an employer's site.  Some people make pretty good money by training other blind people as to how to use a computer.  This 
also generally means being willing to travel, being able to communicate and teach, and to be patient with people who know less than you do about computers.  The 
computer skill is only part of what you deal with.  Much of what you do to be employed goes beyond the particular skill set that you need to do the job.  You have to 
convince people that you can design a good web page or that you are a good trainer.  This means presenting yourself well in an interview, advertising your services, 
writing a good resume, and of course, having the ability to do what you promise you can do.  It can mean hiring people to do some reading or other things that you 
can't do as well, maybe hiring drivers sometimes.  In short, you need to find out how modern programmers do their jobs as you have stated, but you also have to 
know how blind people deal with all of the related tasks as well.  A social worker might have tips on hiring drivers and readers that could prove useful to you if you 
have a situation that requires that.  If you decided to be a computer trainer, a teacher even in an unrelated subject area might have hints that could make you a 
better instructor than you might be otherwise.  

While we haven't all experienced what you may have experienced, I think you are wrong not to understand that all of us have struggled in some way to get to where 
we are.  All of us have sometimes felt that life was unfair, that we wish we were not blind, that society understood us better and so forth.  But feeling these things 
won't change anything.  I think that is the point that we are all trying to make in so many ways.  Even if something is truly not fair, knowing that won't help.  The only 
thing that helps is to look for ways of overcoming that which seems unfair.  That is really all that any of us can do, besides helping each other along the way.  It is 
probably true that each of us starts and ends at a slightly different place, but the road we travel is very much the same.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 00:34:26 -0500, Peter Wolfe wrote:

>-- 
>Peter
>Webmaster
>http://www.darkstruggle.com
>webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>alternative e-mail
>sunspot005 at gmail.com

>Blink Talk Members:


>    It's me Peter here to eliminate all confusion, doubt or whatever
>misconceptions have about my posts. I don't know if you got all of my
>numerous replies too many to even to count rebuking you guys. I merely
>was stating personal, blindness and infrastructural government
>involvement in aiding an individual in the largely rural south. I
>posted another independent thread completely neglected by most members
>with malice or neglect on this matter as well. Each time i replied it
>was sent back with a me as a sender, so I've not been on a list that
>this has ever happened to a reply e-mail before.
>    I want someone to brainstorm with or to explain in a narrative
>about common challenges and how they hurtled them being blind. In
>particular, blind programmers for computer science, computer
>informational systems or software engineering. A current degree holder
>of five to ten years is prefered cause older degree holders don't
>understand in my opinion about participation and the rise ot internet
>technology locked with the courses. The rise of our technology
>supplements just doesn't augment this reality. A realistic approach by
>someone from University of Texas at Denton thus far means more than
>all of your finger point at some details from like my original psot. I
>moved from that point.
>    The piledriving of the issue about public transportation was a
>prime example. A one size fits all approach to a deeply personal
>independent and emplowering prospective from another angle is
>different in each place. Each person is an individual not a blind
>person necessarily. So, each public transportation system differs like
>the landscape, fiscal allocation, infrastructure, etc. The people that
>don't use their cars tend to be urban inner city environmentalist or
>car poolers from New York, San Francisco, Washington, D.C Atlanta,
>Georgia, Seattle, Washington, etc not little rural poor Alabama. Then,
>this idea like I'm lazy is wrong as well cause if I was lazy why am I
>posting on this list?
>    Fourthly I want to clear up confusion about this matter. I am a
>person with unique challenges like no family, low budget, no
>resources, low public transportation, etc that normal blind people
>rarily face. Then, I want to switch my major and blind schools are
>mentioned like in Louisania or somewhere. Well, surely they are good
>VR probably wouldn't support me going there cause they have spent far
>too much already on me. I put that into consideration when I get any
>government assistance. The person that claiemd that I was seating on
>my ass is wrong by the way. In 2008, I was denied work study cause
>they couldn't make it accessible on campus. A 8-5 job with 12 hours o
>work with no internet courses isn't possible from my prospective of a
>screen reader. The amount of time to have braille to read, electronic
>text to be read, tutoring when needed and mobility with accommedations
>meetings is absurd. I'm merely asking for assistance on specific
>advice on programmers who are recently in the field that use screen
>readers. What is hard about this?
>    Finally, I am not making excuses nor am I not taking personal
>responsability either. The fcost of living on a 670$s in Atlanta or
>Birmingham isn't really even possible with a fiance and a brother that
>is dependent on me either. Would you have it where I live in a dumster
>and do that? YOu guys do these one size fits all and wonder why our
>country is going down the tubes like No Child Left Behind and the rest
>of our education because of the arrogants of a few holding the system
>down.


>sincerely, Peter

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