[Blindtlk] Inferiority complexwith disabilityvsnondisabledsociety

Thu Jun 3 21:23:44 UTC 2010

Peter,

There are two separate answers to many of the questions that you raise.  The two separate parts are "what should society do for us" and "What do we need to 
do."  I was under the impression that you originally asked for help on how to deal with specific situations now.  Let's take public transportation for example.  If I were 
to try to help come up with ideas on how you could get around for the next year, it really doesn't matter what you or I think the government should do because it 
won't likely change.  That is the point that many of us are trying to make, but you seem to take such answers as some sort of hypocracy or as an insult.  If you want 
to achieve some of what you have indicated you want to achieve, you can't wait for the government to provide transportation because even if it happens, it won't 
be soon enough unless you know of changes in your area that are coming soon.  If you would truly like some suggestions, we probably need to know more specifics 
of what you would like to be doing that you are not doing now.  In the end, you would then have to look at the suggestions you get to see what might be of value, 
what you may not have thought of, and maybe give those suggestions a try.  Not every suggestion will fit your situation.  It is possible that you can't get the kind of 
job you want where you currently live.  Many of us have had to move to get training or a job, and you have apparently moved if you were originally from Texas.  
Some of us have moved even when there was no certain job to try to get to a location where we could be more independent than where we were located.  Others 
of us have stayed where we were, even with the disadvantages, and done our best to work around the problems.  Please be patient with those making suggestions.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:08:54 -0500, Peter Wolfe wrote:

>How do you get around? You never had government assistance republican?
>Come on I can't believe this and if so you are a burden to your family
>or friends. We all must depend on others to an extent so this mocho
>thing isn't working on me bud. I'm originally from Texas the land of
>the rattle snakes and I can tell you your assuming a lot. What if you
>live in a largely rural area with very uneducated people? The people
>that you might think live just like you because your resources you
>take forgranted. I think it's an obligation by the government to give
>meaningful assistance to us. Look at VR counsulers for the most part
>they have secretaries that drive them around. You are crazed man

>On 6/3/10, Steve P. Deeley <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com> wrote:
>> You want to live where is no public transportation, that is certainly your
>> business.  Don't depend on the government to provide you with
>> transportation!!
>>
>> Steve
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complexwith
>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>
>>
>>> Julie:
>>>
>>>
>>>   How many blind people are farmers? I bet not even a percent and I
>>> bet they have firm rootxs from generation to generation within their
>>> church. So, the family of massive wealth resources also helps as well.
>>> They grow their own food and can be able. How well can they see? Do
>>> they have a spouse or other relative nearby? I know of this cause I
>>> know someone in a simular situation with his own acrage and has his
>>> sister to help out tremendously. Not all of us have relatives alive
>>> anymore or if so aren't functionally able to do so. I am just saying.
>>>
>>> On 6/2/10, Julie J <julielj at windstream.net> wrote:
>>>> What happens to the blind people who want to be farmers?
>>>>
>>>> Just sayin' public transportation isn't the miracle cure for everything.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complexwith
>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You need to take responsibility and move to areas where there is
>>>>> adequate
>>>>> public transportation!
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:00 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If personal responsability was a mantra strong enough how come it is
>>>>>> that blind people in particilar are not gainfully employed? Some areas
>>>>>> don't facilitate transportation and I have been around virtually all
>>>>>> types of blind people. There is a good number that can't get hired and
>>>>>> private companies in particilar go against it  like Goergia Pacific or
>>>>>> have halfway commitments like car plants. Then, government layoffs as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>    Another thing is that many legallly blind people post about an
>>>>>> almost completely blind prospective. Perhaps some of this can be done.
>>>>>> However, I've ran across plenty of blind people in my opinion that
>>>>>> have people pick up after them. I mean that it's not as independent
>>>>>> cause they don't want to be or people pity them too much. There are
>>>>>> limitations even with the best accessability and acknowledging them is
>>>>>> a good realistic approach. Then, my interests and dislikes and I've
>>>>>> done that. I've researched these areas and what it boils down to is
>>>>>> insecurity with being blind.
>>>>>>    About my local NFB branch. Since Mike Jones has been away for a
>>>>>> unknown set time to Hawaii to the last time I've heard that Auburn's
>>>>>> NFB is nothing? It's mainly in bigger cities. How do you meet blind
>>>>>> people then? The Program for Students with Disabilities isn't a social
>>>>>> networking site unfortunately. It is okay via e-mail and I have ran
>>>>>> into three blind people here just one has left and that is about it.
>>>>>>    What would you do about choosing to change your major into
>>>>>> something with more creativity or teaching that you won't be
>>>>>> complained about doing cause they have already paid so much? Initially
>>>>>> when I started college I wanted to be a lawyer but I realize they is a
>>>>>> element of corruption and huge sin risks by word scrambling to suit
>>>>>> your own agenda that I don't like at all. So, the psychology field,
>>>>>> history and political science all weren't what I wanted. There is this
>>>>>> initative to get math and science students at Auburn to do that stuff.
>>>>>>    I have to take calculus 1 and or calculus 2 but I don't know
>>>>>> neimith code. How logn do you think it could take someone with
>>>>>> virtually no experience to learn the basics for that course? I might
>>>>>> just get a tutor though and do it that way. If there is computer
>>>>>> scientists on the list just e-mail me. I don't beleieve that blind
>>>>>> people have to do all of this calculus information like some have
>>>>>> fabricated though. Arrogance is hard to deal with supposedly
>>>>>> successful blind people. I owuld like to own my own company!
>>>>>> note: thanks to all of you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/2/10, Hyde, David W. (ESC) <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us> wrote:
>>>>>>> Peter, I started to reply several times. Gary and Steve both make good
>>>>>>> points. They said the things I wanted to say. Let me add that I know
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> wouldn't have had the type of encouragement I have had were it not for
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> blind. I have had the boone of meeting more successful people than
>>>>>>> most,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> finding that they are willing to share their secrets (mostly hard work
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> techniques that make sense once you learn them) with me. They then
>>>>>>> expected
>>>>>>> me to pass them on to others. I have learned to try my best.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You sound like a fellow who has a number of things going on at the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> time. Please don't try to solve them all at once. If you can
>>>>>>> prioritize
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> needs (it's hard, but it is the only way to get them all down) and
>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> them one at a time, you can see some progress. I think the hardest
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> me to learn, and to explain is that it is acceptable to fail. It
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> mean that you are less of a person. Everyone fails at something. I
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> trying new things, and I do some of them well, and some of them badly.
>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>> interesting to see which I learn the most from.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Find some blind people who you like in your area. Find some who will
>>>>>>> teach
>>>>>>> you the things that they do. None of us would have planed to be blind,
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> we a choice. Since we didn't, some of us are happy, successful, and
>>>>>>> satisfied with life anyway. As I write, I remember a book I recently
>>>>>>> read
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> a fellow named Mike May. Mike now runs Sendero Group, doing GPS
>>>>>>> systems.
>>>>>>> He's a nice guy, and I met him long before he was successful. The book
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> called Crashing Through. I found it interesting in that Michael is a
>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> just never learned to fail. He failed until he found ways to succeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't know if this helps or not. Please let us know how you're doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Dewey Bradley
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 1:40 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Garry makes some very good points indeed.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>>>>>>> To: "'Gary Wunder'" <gwunder at earthlink.net>; "'Blind Talk Mailing
>>>>>>> List'"
>>>>>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:04 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with
>>>>>>> disabilityvsnondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary makes some very good points here as well. It would simply be
>>>>>>>> untrue for me to tell you that there are no advantages to being
>>>>>>>> sighted, or disadvantages to being blind. Just as there are
>>>>>>>> advantages
>>>>>>>> to having money, v. not  having as much. If Bill Gates decides that
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> wants to order a pizza on a Friday night for dinner, he doesn't have
>>>>>>>> to stop and think about whether or not he can afford it the way that
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The point is though, that there are ways around most of these things.
>>>>>>>> We find those ways, most of them are not insurmountable,  and we lead
>>>>>>>> productive and full lives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Diane Graves
>>>>>>>> Civil Rights Specialist
>>>>>>>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>>>>>>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>>>>>>> 317-232-2647
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "It is service that measures success."
>>>>>>>> George Washington Carver
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:25 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Inferiority complex with disability vs
>>>>>>>> nondisabledsociety
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter, you have asked many questions and I am certain in one sitting
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> can't begin to response to them all. Even this assumes I know all the
>>>>>>>> answers, which I most certainly do not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I throw out these ideas and observations with the suggestion that you
>>>>>>>> take what you like and leave the rest. It does no good to compare
>>>>>>>> yourself with what you might have been. In the first place, you don't
>>>>>>>> know what you might have been. I might be angry because my Dad was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> owner of a successful construction business which I could have run
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> might be far better off financially than I am now. Without sight, I
>>>>>>>> can't run the heavy equipment so perhaps I should be angry. Because I
>>>>>>>> am blind, I traveled a different road, went to college, got a degree,
>>>>>>>> and work as a computer programmer. That college experience introduced
>>>>>>>> me to good books, to different thoughts about the world, and to a
>>>>>>>> tolerance of other people I'd never have gotten had I stayed at home.
>>>>>>>> Which life is the better? Unfortunately this is a question without an
>>>>>>>> answer. I have to make of my life what is possible, without spending
>>>>>>>> too much time grieving about some alternative future.
>>>>>>>> In your note you acknowledge a lot of problems. Acknowledging one has
>>>>>>>> a problem is often the first step on the road to solving it, but
>>>>>>>> sometimes that acknowledgement is simply a way of stating the problem
>>>>>>>> and the more we state it, the more we come to like the way we say it.
>>>>>>>> We grow accustomed to the burden of that problem, and rather than
>>>>>>>> using our admission to solve it, we carry it like a badge of honor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my own work, I can tell you that blineness makes many things hard
>>>>>>>> which others find easy. They see computer screens and what is wanted
>>>>>>>> from them is obvious. I hear computer screens and have to often work
>>>>>>>> pretty hard to figure out what is wanted and where I am on the
>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>> I can make a real case for how disadvantaged this makes me, but the
>>>>>>>> more important thing is that I figure it out and be productive enough
>>>>>>>> I can bring home a pay check.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You talk about the country in which you were born. There may be
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> countries in which to be blind, but I am certain the majority are
>>>>>>>> worse.
>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>> your country you have the opportunity to make a contract with our
>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>> That contract says that we, all of us, will help you with training
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> equipment if, in return, you will try your hardest to take that
>>>>>>>> equipment and training and put it to a productive use - preferably a
>>>>>>>> use which will pay you. You will then pay taxes, buy a home, support
>>>>>>>> your local businesses, not to mention Wal-Mart, and everyone wins.
>>>>>>>> Winning isn't easy, but it is far easier than carrying around the
>>>>>>>> anger for what you might have been if only you had tried.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take your anger and, if you can, turn it into resolve. Look at your
>>>>>>>> situation, acknowledge there are disadvantages, and at the same time
>>>>>>>> determine how you can benefit from where you find yourself. If you
>>>>>>>> constantly live with the dream of driving the car you once had,
>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>> be disappointed. If you live with the dream of the dcar which may
>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>> to be if we who are blind work together, then your sadness may just
>>>>>>>> become a tool for hope.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish you all the luck in the world, and where luck stops and
>>>>>>>> personal responsibility begins, I wish you the courage to take it on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>> Webmaster
>>>>>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>>>>>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>>>>>> alternative e-mail
>>>>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter
>>> Webmaster
>>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>>> alternative e-mail
>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>-- 
>Peter
>Webmaster
>http://www.darkstruggle.com
>webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>alternative e-mail
>sunspot005 at gmail.com

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