[Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

Graves, Diane dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
Tue Aug 9 18:34:08 UTC 2011 

Ray,

I appreciate your concern, but let me assure you that it is definitely misplaced. Let me clarify. I do not "snap" at everyone who offers to help. In fact, I have no problem at all with someone asking me whether I need help. Sometimes I do. Sometimes we all do whether blind or sighted. Where the problem arises for me is when someone insists after I have politely refused their help, or simply assumes and comes to grab me or take items out of my hands, talking to me all the while as if I were a child. As I have stated, I am not necessarily the most assertive person--nothing to do with blindness--so, at these times, I find that I either seize inwardly for having been treated like a five-year-old, or my feelings come forth more aggressively than I would like. Unfortunately the first extreme is my typical reaction.

I have tried to ignore your previous implications, but since you have cut to the chafe here, I will too.  I am a person who has been blind since infancy. My blindness skills are intact, and I am a professional, fully functioning individual. I have expressed my feelings and asked for guidance here, because we are all blind, and I thought this was a safe forum in which I could express my feelings.

If this post comes across aggressively, I apologize in advance. Thanks for your concern, but your assessment is off center.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
 
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
 
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 1:34 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

Diane, 

	I noticed, (to speak frankly), that you seem to get angry quite frequently about people wanting to help you and thinking they're going too far.  Are you quite sure you're secure about your own blindness?  I ask because it seems to me that if a blind person tends toward anger with great frequency, it suggests an insecurity on the part of that person regarding their own blindness.  That's not a very healthy response to any situation.  To snap at everybody who offers some sort of help is most definently a bad way to respond and I"m getting a little concerned here.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1



On Aug 9, 2011, at 8:23 AM, Graves, Diane wrote:

> Hi Guys,
> 
> Okay now my question is this. I am not the most assertive person in the world. I find that when I make attempts to overcome this I usually end up offending someone and going more towards the aggressive. However, my experience is that usually when I ask for help and often when I don't, I'll have a tray or whatever taken out of my hands by someone who is meaning to be helpful, but just kind of takes over. How do you handle this, while keeping your dignity, and that of the other person in tact? When I try to refuse the assistance, or simply explain that some verbal directions will do, they often want to argue, which just makes me angry. Does anyone else experience this?
> 
> 
> 
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
> 
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:00 AM
> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com; Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines
> 
> We actually teach people in our training centers to ask for what they 
> need.  Certainly, we teach them skills so that they will need less 
> than they used to, but the point stands.
> 
> I still often order what someone else is having at restaurants to 
> avoid the accessible menu hassle.  Particularly with menu boards.
> 
> I also ask people for directions, for information about layouts of 
> cafeterias, and lots of questions about what and where things are.  
> It works, as long as I generally assume that the people around me 
> don't owe me anything and I ought not take advantage of their 
> willingness to answer overly much.  That is, just because you told me 
> what something was doesn't turn you into my personal assistant.
> 
> I generally carry my own tray, though out at a picnic fund raiser I 
> was working this weekend, the ground was very uneven and I'd rather 
> wished once or twice that I'd accepted the offer made to carry it for 
> me.  I almost spilled my drink about half a dozen times!  I didn't 
> because I'm quite able to carry my own.  Besides, as one of the cooks 
> I was both aware of the frenzied pace and the effect of leaving the 
> service line short a pair of hands.  I managed, I just had to walk 
> far more slowly than I otherwise would.  I got the job done without 
> spilling but the first drop.
> 
> Basically, you do whatever works.  *smile*
> 
> Joseph - kf7qzc
> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 02:38:15PM -0500, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>> Dave, Gary and all,
>> 
>> My comments stemmed from my experience with a few NFB members who
>> believe that asking for assistance when it's needed, even though not
>> doing so could result in them doing something foolish or causing pain
>> to someone else, is not something they do. It wasn't intended to be a
>> negative characterization of the NFB or any other organization, I was
>> just basing my statements from experiences.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> On 08.08.2011, David Evans <drevans at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> Dear Kelby,
>>> 
>>> Here are some tips I have found useful.
>>> Ask someone to give you a description of the layout of the area and maybe
>>> walk you around the first time so you can get an idea of the arrangement of
>>> the room, the lanes and the locations of such things as the soda machines,
>>> the salad bar, the entrees and so on.
>>> Use a tray if you can and you can likely slide it along the food serving
>>> tables as you find what you want and place it on the tray.
>>> I always lead the tray with one hand to keep from running the tray into
>>> other people's trays and so I do not push the tray off the end of the slide
>>> and on to the floor.
>>> If I can, I try to follow another person and I may even engage them in
>>> conversation and use this to give me clues as to when to move up or which
>>> way to turn and when.
>>>  I might even ask them for some help if I need it.  Never be to proud to
>>> ask for help if you need it.
>>> When I carry a tray, I place the heaviest objects closest to my hand nearest
>>> me.  This lets me balance the tray and the load on it better and keep it
>>> under control.
>>> I generally hold my cane in my right hand and also one side of the tray.  I
>>> can still swing my cane to help me find my way and keep a balance on the
>>> tray.
>>> Finding a place to sit can sometimes be a challenge, but I ask other people
>>> if there is an open seat in the area and generally do okay.  I sometimes ask
>>> the casher if there is a seat nearby and to give me some rough directions.
>>> I always carry my own food, but I ask for help when I feel I need it and
>>> conditions warnt it.
>>> I am sure that there are many other tips out there.  I never had anyone show
>>> me how to do it and just had to figure it out for myself.
>>> Use caps or covers on drinks when ever you can to cut down on spills.  I
>>> usually place my drink next to my left hand, at the corner of the tray, so I
>>> can place a finger on it to help keep it from sliding and spilling.
>>>  I hope others have some tips that help you out also.
>>> 
>>> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>>> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
>>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 12:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hi Kelby. You may get some answers here, but you might also try posting to
>>>> the blind student's list.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:23 AM
>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines
>>>> 
>>>> Hey, list.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll be starting college mobility soon, and one of the things I
>>>> am wondering about is navigating cafeteria lines.  I haven't done
>>>> this much in high school (I brought my own lunch.) Have any of
>>>> you worked out ways of navigating the lines in the cafeteria that
>>>> don't require a ton of sighted guide? How do you get information
>>>> on items away from the main buffet line?
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Nimer M. Jaber
>> 
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>> 
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
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