[Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

Wed Aug 10 16:13:43 UTC 2011

Hi Gary And All,

I always appreciate your thoughtful responses Gary. I started to drop you a note to let you know that off list as I was concerned about belaboring the issue, and then I decided to post to the list as there were several people who gave me food for thought yesterday.

Gary, you make a really good point about recognizing that sometimes we might need to let go of our own pride long enough to allow others to feel good about themselves. Maybe I need to start making the "helpful Henry" situations less about me, and try to balance them so that someone else can feel that they have given of themselves to someone else.

I believe it was Joseph, who stated that some can only take your dignity if you allow them to have it. This is a good point as well. If someone is talking to me as if I am a child, and I am responding as an articulate adult, then who is it, really, who looks foolish?

Finally, although I had a problem with Ray's assessment, in the end, his post did offer some food for thought. Perhaps the fact that I allow others to have this effect on me does stem from my own insecurity. Not necessarily with my blindness, but with myself as an equal. Maybe the key to dealing with the anger that occasionally surfaces is developing a self esteem and sense of equality which no one can bring into question with a few thoughtless words or actions.

Anyway, I didn't mean to turn this in to a psycho analysis (smile). Just wanted to say thanks to you all.

On another note, I also understand what Gary was saying about fearing that you will lose the skills you have developed. My husband and I recently purchased a car. There were several reasons that this seemed to be a practical move for the family. So, since we are paying a hefty car payment each month, it makes sense that this is primarily my mode of travel now. In the back of my mind though there is some concern about my independent travel skills waning, due to a lack of exercise.

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 9:37 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

Hello Diane.  I experience this.  Very often how I react will depend on who
it is that is trying to help me, my assessment of their attitude, and even
my assessment of their need to be helpful.  There was a time when I needed
to do everything for myself just to prove that it could be done.  There is
still a risk that if I let too much be done for me, I forget the skills that
keep me going or I begin to fear that I no longer have them.  So there is
this balance that is difficult to achieve between doing everything that I
know I can do and occasionally letting someone feel good about something
they can do.  I don't find myself getting mad very often unless what is
offered turns into what is dictated.  That makes a lot of difference to me.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Graves, Diane
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:24 AM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

Hi Guys,

Okay now my question is this. I am not the most assertive person in the
world. I find that when I make attempts to overcome this I usually end up
offending someone and going more towards the aggressive. However, my
experience is that usually when I ask for help and often when I don't, I'll
have a tray or whatever taken out of my hands by someone who is meaning to
be helpful, but just kind of takes over. How do you handle this, while
keeping your dignity, and that of the other person in tact? When I try to
refuse the assistance, or simply explain that some verbal directions will
do, they often want to argue, which just makes me angry. Does anyone else
experience this?

Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647

"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver

Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies)
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advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:00 AM
To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines

We actually teach people in our training centers to ask for what they
need.  Certainly, we teach them skills so that they will need less
than they used to, but the point stands.

I still often order what someone else is having at restaurants to
avoid the accessible menu hassle.  Particularly with menu boards.

I also ask people for directions, for information about layouts of
cafeterias, and lots of questions about what and where things are.
It works, as long as I generally assume that the people around me
don't owe me anything and I ought not take advantage of their
willingness to answer overly much.  That is, just because you told me
what something was doesn't turn you into my personal assistant.

I generally carry my own tray, though out at a picnic fund raiser I
was working this weekend, the ground was very uneven and I'd rather
wished once or twice that I'd accepted the offer made to carry it for
me.  I almost spilled my drink about half a dozen times!  I didn't
because I'm quite able to carry my own.  Besides, as one of the cooks
I was both aware of the frenzied pace and the effect of leaving the
service line short a pair of hands.  I managed, I just had to walk
far more slowly than I otherwise would.  I got the job done without
spilling but the first drop.

Basically, you do whatever works.  *smile*

Joseph - kf7qzc

On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 02:38:15PM -0500, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>Dave, Gary and all,
>
>My comments stemmed from my experience with a few NFB members who
>believe that asking for assistance when it's needed, even though not
>doing so could result in them doing something foolish or causing pain
>to someone else, is not something they do. It wasn't intended to be a
>negative characterization of the NFB or any other organization, I was
>just basing my statements from experiences.
>
>Thanks.
>
>On 08.08.2011, David Evans <drevans at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Dear Kelby,
>>
>> Here are some tips I have found useful.
>> Ask someone to give you a description of the layout of the area and maybe
>> walk you around the first time so you can get an idea of the arrangement
of
>> the room, the lanes and the locations of such things as the soda
machines,
>> the salad bar, the entrees and so on.
>> Use a tray if you can and you can likely slide it along the food serving
>> tables as you find what you want and place it on the tray.
>> I always lead the tray with one hand to keep from running the tray into
>> other people's trays and so I do not push the tray off the end of the
slide
>> and on to the floor.
>> If I can, I try to follow another person and I may even engage them in
>> conversation and use this to give me clues as to when to move up or which
>> way to turn and when.
>>   I might even ask them for some help if I need it.  Never be to proud to
>> ask for help if you need it.
>> When I carry a tray, I place the heaviest objects closest to my hand
nearest
>> me.  This lets me balance the tray and the load on it better and keep it
>> under control.
>> I generally hold my cane in my right hand and also one side of the tray.
I
>> can still swing my cane to help me find my way and keep a balance on the
>> tray.
>> Finding a place to sit can sometimes be a challenge, but I ask other
people
>> if there is an open seat in the area and generally do okay.  I sometimes
ask
>> the casher if there is a seat nearby and to give me some rough
directions.
>> I always carry my own food, but I ask for help when I feel I need it and
>> conditions warnt it.
>> I am sure that there are many other tips out there.  I never had anyone
show
>> me how to do it and just had to figure it out for myself.
>> Use caps or covers on drinks when ever you can to cut down on spills.  I
>> usually place my drink next to my left hand, at the corner of the tray,
so I
>> can place a finger on it to help keep it from sliding and spilling.
>>   I hope others have some tips that help you out also.
>>
>> David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>> Nuclear/Aerospace Materials Engineer
>> Builder of the Lunar Rovers and the F-117 Stealth Fighter
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 12:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines
>>
>>
>>> Hi Kelby. You may get some answers here, but you might also try posting
to
>>> the blind student's list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson
>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 9:23 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Navigating Cafeteria Lines
>>>
>>> Hey, list.
>>>
>>> I'll be starting college mobility soon, and one of the things I
>>> am wondering about is navigating cafeteria lines.  I haven't done
>>> this much in high school (I brought my own lunch.) Have any of
>>> you worked out ways of navigating the lines in the cafeteria that
>>> don't require a ton of sighted guide? How do you get information
>>> on items away from the main buffet line?
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>--
>Nimer M. Jaber
>
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