[Blindtlk] National Federation ofthe BlindSecuresCourtRulingAgainst Cardtronics

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Fri Dec 23 23:51:33 UTC 2011 

I personally don't see the point of APS's.  About truncated 
domes, I think it's a good landmark so you are sure you're at the 
corner, and they have helped me a few times.  But I can see what 
you mean about their dangers when it's icy.

Chris

Merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year!

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan (President, National Federation of the Blind, 
1968-1986

 The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps blind and visually impaired youth 
in Maryland say "I can," by empowering them through providing 
assistive technology and scholarships to camps and conventions 
which help them be equal with their sighted peers.  For more 
information about the Foundation and to support our work, visit 
us online at www.icanfoundation.info!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:29:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] National Federation ofthe	
BlindSecuresCou
rtRulingAgainst 
Cardtronics

I can't stand truncated domes; they're dangerous if it's icy and, 
in my
experience, if one minds ones P's and Q's, they're unnecessary.

Likewise, I'm not very fond of APS's either.  However, I endorse 
NFB's
position if APS's can be turned off and/or if they shut up rather 
than going
continuously through the WALK cycle.

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:59 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] National Federation of the
BlindSecuresCourtRulingAgainst Cardtronics

I use the domes all the time, and they are very helpful,
especially at blended curves in residential or semi-residential
neighborhoods where I'm not really sure if it's a driveway or the
corner.  The domes help me a lot, and I have found them to be a
wonderful landmark! I've never heard anything about the
Federation being against them, just the APS.  I've also read some
old Braille Monitors, in which I've seen some pretty negative
stuff written by Dr.  Jernigan and other Federationists about
APS's.  Well, I'm glad times have changed, and with them the
Federation's positions.

Chris

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan (President, National Federation of the Blind,
1968-1986

 The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps blind and visually impaired youth
in Maryland say "I can," by empowering them through providing
assistive technology and scholarships to camps and conventions
which help them be equal with their sighted peers.  For more
information about the Foundation and to support our work, visit
us online at www.icanfoundation.info!

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com
To: gwunder at earthlink.net, Blind Talk Mailing List
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:07:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] National Federation of the
BlindSecuresCourtRulingAgainst Cardtronics

It's entirely possible that I've read some out-of-date articles,
because I did do some research awhile back and was more than a
little bit put off by what I read.  I can telly that where I
live--Nashville Tennessee--some of the street envirnments are not
terribly pedestrian friendly, with some streets not having a
shoulder.  This means that both tactile domes at the street level
as well as audible signals come in very handy, and "level the
playing field" for blind people in the area.  The audible signals
I use are very sensible and it's very clear which street is being
signaled and when/if there is traffic.  Like I said, the
information I read may be out-of-date, so if it is I apologize.
But I have found nothing but help in audible signals on some
tricky intersections (and even was lucky enough to help get one
installed on a bad intersection near where I live.)

Kelby



 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:42:17 -0600
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] National Federation of the Blind
SecuresCourtRulingAgainst Cardtronics

Hi Kelby.  Perhaps your mind is already made up about the NFB's
position on
audible traffic signals, and perhaps you understand the position
very well.
My experience, however, is that most people simply believe that
we are
opposed to them, without considering where we think they are
appropriate and
what must be incorporated into their design so that they are not
a hazard
for blind pedestrians.  There was certainly a time when I was
uncomfortable
with our position about audible signals because I considered it
so
inflexible that anyone with the least interest in installing them
probably
would not talk with us.  I believe this changed in the 1990s,
with our
acceptance of the vibro-tactile signals, and a changing
environment which
made many streets less pedestrian friendly than they were
previously.

When I was growing up, there were two audible traffic signals
where I
traveled.  One Was a Block from the Kansas City Association for
the Blind
and the second was two blocks from the Missouri school for the
blind.  Both
of those audible signals used a shrill buzzer which sounded for
approximately 5 seconds.  Both were so loud that they totally
obscured the
sound of traffic.  Even a person who has never studied physics
knows that
the most important thing to know before crossing the street is
not the color
of the light but the presence or absence of a moving vehicle in
one's path.

Perhaps such signals would never have been developed or would
quickly have
been replaced by more suitable instruments had we taken a less
firm stance,
but I have to tell you that listening to the politicians talk
about how
those signals made their cities more blind friendly did not set
well with
me, especially when they were more of an impediment than they
were a help.
I don't know that such signals still exist, and I've personally
been on
committees where we've recommended the installation of a
signaling device
that the blind can use.  In those cases where our recommendation
has been
accepted, I think the signals are both useful and non-obtrusive.

My apology if you knew most of this already.

Gary



-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Kelby Carlson
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 6:27 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] National Federation of the Blind Secures
CourtRulingAgainst Cardtronics

Not to be terribly pedantic--because this is good news--but it
seems to me that the NFB can be a little selective in its
campaign for access to mainstream technolog.  I'm thinking here
of the NFB's well-known and longstanding opposition to audible
walking signals--signals which the sighted have access to.  I
could likely as not come up with other examples.


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