[Blindtlk] [nabs-l] note takers: are they worth buying anymore?

Wed Jul 27 22:16:51 UTC 2011

All of the note takers on the market follow the same basic model.  
That is to say they’re all heavy bricks you’re expected to wear 
around your neck, usually with Braille displays and Braille entry 
keys, and until the Apex came along they were all roughly a given 
size and shape.  There are really three of them, the KeySoft models, 
the PAC mates, and the Braille Senses.  The last is fairly new, but 
has become a competitor rather quickly, indicating to me at least 
that the market IS hungry for something better than the offerings of 
the Big Two.

I guess we’ll see if LevelStar can fit themselves into the mix as a 
fourth contender.  Based on the interface of the Icon and the draw of 
using regular Android apps, they might have a winner.  We’ll see.

The iPad is Apple’s iOS-based tablet.  Many call it a "big iPod 
touch", but those who really appreciate it believe they’ve got it 
backwards.  The iPod is a small iPad!  One might argue that for the 
blind, the iPad offers little over the iPod, since it just means a 
bigger device with a larger screen containing more things at a time 
which we still can’t see.  Perhaps that’s so—but the iPad allows for 
more sophisticated apps because of the larger screen, whether or not 
we’re looking at it.

Because the accessibility of the iPad is built-in, the potential is 
very high for lots of apps to just work with it.  The reality is a 
little less than phenomenal success there because Apple is not 
currently indicating which apps work with VoiceOver in the app store, 
but that’s something that will come in time (and there are mailing 
lists that discuss which apps are and aren’t accessible in the 
meantime.)  Plus, the forthcoming iOS 5 will allow the simple case of 
standard buttons missing labels to be corrected by the user.

All of the standard apps (at least as functional as any note taker) 
are accessible out of the box.  The only one I’ve found to be limited 
in any way is the visual representation of Google Maps.  As it turns 
out, though, the app can be place into a list mode where you can 
still use it to look up nearby stores and the like and be given an 
address.  A properly accessible GPS navigator is desired, but not 
quite trivial—you’d have to ask someone else about the options, I 
have not been willing to spend the money on navigation apps to try 
them out so far.

Joseph - KF7QZC

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 06:01:26AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>Like I said, that is why there are many note takers on the market.
>
>Just because I am happy with the Pac Mate, it doesn't mean others have to be. If we all liked the same thing, it sure would be a dull world.
>
>I do have a question for you though.
>
>Could you explain to me what an iPad is?
>
>Thank you and have a good day!
>
>
>Gloria Whipple
>Corresponding Secretary
>Inland Empire chapter
>nfb of WA
>
>Cell: 509-475-4993
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 00:02
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [nabs-l] note takers: are they worth buying anymore?
>
>I used a BrailleNote PK for awhile.  A bit heavy but it got the job
>done.  The KeySoft 7.5 thing really kinda irritated me, and as time
>went along I found that my MacBook Air was no less convenient,
>weighed only a few ounces more, and did a lot more for me.  Now I
>have an iPad and I couldn’t imagine the limitations of either a
>KeySoft-based device or a PAC mate, not even to get an integrated
>Braille display out of it!
>
>Joseph - KF7QZC
>
>
>On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 05:47:29AM -0700, Gloria Whipple wrote:
>>Do you have one?
>>
>>I don't have any trouble with it.
>>
>>That is why so many note takers are on the market so everyone can have their preference.
>>
>>I also have a Type 'N Speak and also very pleased with it.
>>
>>
>>Gloria Whipple
>>Corresponding Secretary
>>Inland Empire chapter
>>nfb of WA
>>
>>Cell: 509-475-4993
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>>Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 00:05
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Cc: Blind Talk list
>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [nabs-l] notetakers: are they worth buying anymore?
>>
>>I don’t think they do, or at least I think their lifespan is limited.
>>
>>First, there’s very little that can justify the cost of an Apex these
>>days.  It just costs too much.  Second, I don’t know how many times I
>>have heard the excuse from our chapter secretary that his BN crashed
>>and he needs someone else to get him a recording or produce minutes
>>or something.  Both it and the PAC mate have a solid reputation for
>>being about as stable as a house of cards in a tornado.  During an
>>earthquake.  While a volcano is erupting.
>>
>>And while the PAC mate is supposed to be so great because it can run
>>"standard" software for the platform, most of the software doesn’t
>>actually work with it properly and the platform has pretty much taken
>>a back seat to iOS and Android at this point.
>>
>>At the beginning of the PDA revolution, there was Palm.  (Actually,
>>there was Apple with the Newton, but I’m talking successful PDA
>>revolution here…)  Then Handspring came along and produced a Palm
>>that was better than the Palm.  There were accessories the people who
>>made it never intended, including a folding laptop-style keyboard
>>called the Stowaray, and suddenly there was no need to lug a laptop
>>in to a meeting to take notes.  Plus the thing was SO COOL, and it
>>cost a small fraction of what a laptop did that wasn’t as fast or as
>>convenient to the task!
>>
>>Of course, none of this is accessible.
>>
>>Fast forward about 15 years or so and today sighted people likely use
>>an iPad or Android-based wannabe tablet for the same purpose.  They
>>may or may not use an external Bluetooth keyboard.  They could use an
>>iPhone (or wannabe) for the same purpose, but the sighted like having
>>big screens that are easy to see, so the preference is the iPad.
>>
>>But the blind can tell you that the iPhone is just as useful, and
>>perhaps more so because you can’t stuff an iPad into a pocket (unless
>>you’re wearing a Scott-E-Vest which is just comical and not really
>>the point.)  There are flip-out keyboard cases for the iPhone 4
>>(which are a great idea for any blind user) and small Braille I/O
>>devices that are much more comfortable to ear than the brick-like
>>note taker of yesteryear.
>>
>>And accessibility is improving, in general, on the iPhone.  Even the
>>Android platform is starting to see some movement in that direction.
>>At some point either platform will be viable to the blind, at least
>>as effective as a PAC mate, probably as easy to use as a BrailleNote,
>>and cheaper than any of the above.
>>
>>If anybody has a future with the form factor of the traditional note
>>taker, it’s LevelStar, which figured out that having their own custom
>>software just doesn’t make sense anymore.  They’re building on the
>>proven interface of the Icon (their own software) and putting it into
>>Android itself giving you the ease of a BrailleNote and the function
>>of an Android device.  And if the guys at LevelStar stay true to
>>form, they’re going to bring it to you for a lot less than HumanWare
>>does.
>>
>>Neither iOS nor Android is ready to replace KeySoft IMO, but KeySoft
>>is still the same program HumanWare has been schlepping for decades
>>now with big ticket upgrade fees for small, incremental feature
>>additions.  In fact, I remember the "major" upgrade (with SMA usage
>>or paid outright) for KeySoft 7.5 to add RFB&D book support to my
>>little PK less than six months after I bought the thing!  More than a
>>year ago, I read a blog article from the CEO of Serotek about the
>>"blind ghetto" technology.
>>
>>He was talking about Freedom Scientific and HumanWare specifically,
>>and how neither company seems to truly innovate.  Why should they?
>>So far they’ve been able to foist minor evolutions of products that
>>are becoming less and less stable for exorbitant upgrade fees, or
>>make minor revisions to a product while maintaining an existing price
>>point.  The exceptions for HumanWare were the Apex and the Victor
>>Reader Stream, the former of which saw a massive cost increase that
>>isn’t going down anytime soon, and the latter was made some five
>>years ago.
>>
>>Meanwhile new players are filling the market with devices that are
>>better than anything any of the big players has to offer at a
>>fraction of the cost.  Companies like LevelStar, HIMS, SeroTek, and
>>even GW Micro has dipped its toes in the water here and there.  They
>>are still making blindness-specific products, but they’re taking a
>>fresh look and realizing that if they can’t deliver products that are
>>better or cheaper or both than the legacy dinosaurs (and each other),
>>they will die out.
>>
>>The BrailleNote will die off because people will move on.  There are
>>still people out there using Braille 'n' Speaks, but not many these
>>days.  The BrailleNote will follow suit.  The PAC mate is halfway
>>there already, if you ask me.
>>
>>Joseph - KF7QZC
>>
>>
>>On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:01:57PM -0400, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I don't have a set opinion on this matter as of yet, but I'd like to
>>>initiate the discussion.  I'm noticing a trend in the blindness
>>>technology field: PC's can do most everything a notetaker
>>>(BrailleNote, BrailleSense, PacMate, etc.) can do, with some obvious
>>>changes and differences, and in some cases can do and support more
>>>than the notetaker.  This is also true with the ever-improving
>>>accessible smartphones and tablets: the iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch,
>>>(the semiaccessible) Android phones, the KNFB Reader, etc.  Yes, the
>>>notetakers have built-in Braille displays, but you can also install a
>>>stand-alone Braille display on a computer to display what's on the
>>>screen, or you could just buy a screen reader (text-to-speech, not
>>>text-to-Braille) as a replacement for the Braille display...  that
>>>is, if you think it is in fact a replacement for refreshable Braille.
>>>That's another question for all of you in this discussion.  So,
>>>here's the question: with all the advancements and capabilities of a
>>>computer and screen readers or stand-alone refreshable Braille
>>>displays, is it worth it, in your opinion, to buy a notetaker
>>>anymore? What, given all the things a PC can do, is the real purpose
>>>of the notetakers now? I'd love to hear your thoughts!
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
>>>
>>>The I C.A.N.  Foundation helps visually impaired youth in Maryland
>>>have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click on this link
>>>to learn more and to contribute: www.icanfoundation.info or like us
>>>on Facebook at I C.A.N.  Foundation.
>>>
>>>Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
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>>
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