[Blindtlk] The Dog Dilemma
Graves, Diane
dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
Tue Jun 21 14:56:29 UTC 2011
Thank you so much Marion, David and Cindy. This has been extremely helpful, especially Marion's description of how steps and drop-offs are handled. This makes much more sense, and feels much more secure than the previous descriptions I have gotten.
I am not sure about the NAGDU business meeting, as I also have a meeting with the scholarship committee on Sunday evening and am not sure how long it will take, but I will definitely make it appoint to attend the meeting on Tuesday evening.
Thanks again,
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:27 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Dog Dilemma
Diane,
Let me take a stab at your questions. First of all, there will be
several guide dog training programs at convention. Some of them will have
dogs that are either in training or have completed their training awaiting
matching with a person. They will offer opportunities to test drive a guide
dog, if you wish. Specifically, this opportunity will be offered after the
NAGDU seminar on Tuesday. The seminar will be held in the Panzacola room at
7:00 pm with registration beginning at 6:00 pm. During the seminar, we will
have a speaker from the Transportation Security Administration discussing
the screening of blind passengers and a Flight Attendant Trainer sharing
information about in-flight emergency procedures.
Let me share with you about how I trained my dog to deal with steps. I
say "how I trained my dog" because one of the elements of guide dog training
is instruction on how to train your dog to perform specific tasks you want
it to perform. When my dog approaches a step, whether that step is a curb,
more than one step, or a drop-off, the dog is trained to stop. I locate the
step with my foot and praise the dog for stopping. I then give the "Forward"
command. If the step is a single step, the dog will proceed. If it is more
than one step or a drop-off, e.g., a loading dock, the dog will not proceed.
This is called "intelligent disobedience". If I give the "Forward" command
again, my dog will body-block me. If the step is more than one step, the dog
will not proceed until I give him the specific command "Forward, down". (In
the case of an up stair, the command is "Forward, up". Since the dog walks
slightly ahead of the handler, you can feel when the dog reaches the bottom
of the stairs (or the top) as its body levels off, just as you feel the tip
of the cane reach the landing one step before you do. Now, if the step is a
drop-off, the dog will not move. In such a case, the "Find the way" command
is given and the dog will find stairs or a ramp appropriate to get you to
the bottom of the drop-off.
As for your question about other obstacles, such as construction, the
dog is trained to walk in a straight line (known as the "straight line
concept") until an obstacle blocks the path or another directional command
is given. A dog will avoid obstacles, such as barricades, overhangs,
underfootings, or any other obstacle in the way and, once maneuvering past
the obstacle, return you to the straight line on which you were walking. If
the dog is taking you off a sidewalk - my wife and I call it
"four-wheeling" - it will stop at the edge or, at least, slow down, so you
don't trip. The "either or" is dependent upon how you train your dog to deal
with this situation.
As for the crime deterrent effect, it is true that guide dogs are chosen
for their even temperament and can be disqualified for being aggressive;
however, it is still a dog with the pack animal instinct to protect its
pack, especially the alpha dog. I know my dog would have no qualms taking
out someone who attacks me! And if someone is stupid enough to do so with a
100-pound German Shepherd at my side, they deserve what they get! (grin)
If you have any other questions, please feel free to write again. Such
questions are helpful to all who read them, as even other blind people have
misconceptions about how a guide dog works. I look forward to seeing you in
Orlando and at our business meeting on July 3 and our seminar on July 5.
Both are in the same room and begin at 7:00 pm.
Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU)
National Federation of the Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] The Dog Dilemma
> Hi Diane. First, NAGDU generally has a seminar at convention. I know the
> president posts a lot, so he'll probably get back to you. If not, look for
> it on the convention agenda.
>
> I used a dog for ten years, and I went back to a cane. I did this for
> several reasons, some logical, and some not. The illogical reason is that
> I just didn't want to deal with putting another dog down. One was enough,
> at least a dog guide. Nobody cries when you break a cane.
>
> As far as stairs, the dog will stop. If you reach your hand over, you can
> find the rail. Typically, the dog won't go through a set of stairs that
> are too narrow. The dog and you will adapt to each other. I wouldn't worry
> about tobogganing down stairs after the dog. You control the pace.
>
> As far as other difficulties, when traveling, you will carry more things.
> You will need to orient your schedule around the dog's for its feeding,
> care, and relief. They do like routines, as do we all, but the closer you
> stick to their regular one, the happier you will both be. You will get to
> enjoy the now on an early Indiana morning, driving rain, hot summer
> evenings, and everything else mother nature dishes out. As far as vet
> bills, frequently the school takes care of major things. You will need to
> do routine health maintenance, shots and pills, deal with any chronic
> health problems, and emergency care. Unless you like doing it yourself,
> add in the cost of bathing.
>
> I don't know if this helps or not. Look for the seminar at convention.
> Maybe I'll get a chance to meet you there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Graves, Diane
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:32 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] The Dog Dilemma
>
>
> Greetings Federationists,
>
> I posed this question on here a few weeks ago, and didn't get any
> responses, but the question was included in a response that I sent to
> another thread, so I'm thinking that maybe it was missed somehow by those
> who would have had the answer. Anyway, I wanted to give it another try.
>
> For years now, I have been toying with the idea of getting a guide dog,
> wondering if it would be a good fit. But I have a lot of questions and
> concerns. Anyway, I've been waffling. It's kind of like having children I
> guess, there are a lot of things to consider before you take on the
> responsibility. There are other considerations In terms of practicalities,
> such as the space a dog takes when traveling by car, the cost of
> veterinary bills and so forth.
>
> Anyway, my question is whether they ever have events at the convention
> where you can get some actual hands on experience with a dog and how it
> might feel to walk with one? I would really hate to make such a decision
> and then realize that I had made a mistake and have to send the dog back,
> do you know what I mean?
>
> One of my major concerns, in terms of travel, one which I have never been
> able to get a satisfactory answer to is how flights of stairs and curbs
> and so forth are negotiated. When I have asked a fellow Federationist
> here who is a long time user, I am told that, when her dog comes to a drop
> off, it will stop and then she just sticks her foot out and sees that
> there is a step there and just goes for it. That doesn't quite feel right
> to me, because I don't know how you know exactly what you are dealing
> with. When I come to a drop-off with a cane, I can extend my cane and tell
> whether we have a flight of stairs, whether it is a single step, whether
> the steps are narrow, whether it is a high curb, or a seemingly huge
> drop-off... I can also extend the cane to the left or right to see whether
> there is a banister. I am told that dogs tend to take steps really
> quickly. I am not particularly agile, and don't do steps quickly. It's a
> bit unsettling to think of a dog dragging me down the steps.
>
> Anyway, I would really like to get these, and other questions answered
> before I decide to "take the plunge." Otherwise I probably won't. There
> are other ways in which a dog would be really beneficial. For instance,
> they are doing a lot of construction around my work place now. My
> understanding is that the dog would help me avoid such things, take me
> around the debris and relieve me of the stress and frustration that comes
> with trying to negotiate the mess. When traveling alone, especially at
> night, the dog might serve as a deterrent to those who were up to no good.
> We all know, of course, that the dogs are not trained to attack and
> protect, but most of the general public doesn't know that. They think
> that they are so trained, so would be more apt to leave you alone. At
> times when an area is devoid of landmarks, a dog would help ease those
> frustrations as well. There are other advantages that I see as well, but
> before I take on the added responsibilities, expenses and minor
> inconveniences, I really want to be relatively sure that the tradeoffs
> will be worth it. Does that make sense?
>
> Any information would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> [cid:image002.gif at 01CC2FF2.8517C3A0]
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> entity(ies) named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
> distribution, or acting in reliance upon the contents of this E-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in
> error, please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper
> delivery of the transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your
> system immediately.
>
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