[Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter development and Florida Council of the blind students organization development
T. Joseph Carter
carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
Fri Jun 24 01:31:36 UTC 2011
Diane,
I’ll opine that if they have been so sheltered, they HAVE in fact
experienced the discrimination and belittlement. They are just
blissfully unaware of this fact. For this, and not for their
disability, I pity them.
Joseph
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 08:34:01AM -0400, Graves, Diane wrote:
>Joseph,
>
>What you say is very true. There are also those blind individuals who are reluctant to get involved, because they haven't experienced any conflicts. They are blessed to have breezed through life, have had great teachers and educational systems, being well received by others, the things that they care about have been accessible to them, they have experienced no belittlement or discrimination, and on and on. They just don't think there is really a problem, because they, themselves, haven't dealt with it. Do you know what I mean?
>
>
>
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>
>"It is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:29 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter developmentand Florida Council of the blind students organization development
>
>I see it as our job to be better than that. If they are likewise,
>good for them. If they are not, it’s too bad. We know that what we
>are doing is right, and we know we are doing the right thing for the
>right reasons.
>
>I too have seen people say that they believe both organizations need
>to "grow up". That is probably because, at times, some of us have
>appeared to react childishly. Not all of us, and not all the time,
>and there may be explanations and justifications for whatever
>behavior is thus perceived, but the point stands. And it is
>something we should be careful to avoid. We "win" (if there is such
>a thing as "winning") only by choosing not to play the tit for tat
>game with the ACB.
>
>How can this be?
>
>There are only four possible outcomes.
>
>If neither of us are viewed as "acting like adults", the status quo
>is maintained. Not to our advantage.
>
>If we are viewed as "acting like adults" and the ACB is not, we
>benefit. This is to our advantage.
>
>If the ACB is viewed as "acting like adults" and we are not, they
>benefit. Not to our advantage.
>
>If both we and the ACB are viewed as "acting like adults", more
>interest is likely to be shown in both organization. This is to our
>advantage.
>
>The third variable to consider is the person whose perceptions are
>being considered. Some people are simply conflict-adverse. They do
>not care WHAT the lack of harmony is, be it a spirited debate or an
>absolute flamefest. They are likely to reject both organizations
>regardless of our behavior because they cannot cope. That’s not
>something we as an organization can do much about.
>
>Unfortunately, this inability to tolerate disharmony seems to affect
>the younger generations disproportionately. "Drama", as they put it,
>seems to be fine to watch on TV, but should not be experienced in
>real life. Perhaps this has something to do with why it is so hard
>to get the younger generations involved in either organization?
>
>I’ll not opine as to the reasons for this aversion because it tends
>to get into political ideology, and the last time we had such a
>discussion on NFB lists, accusations of Nazism and the like were
>bandied about.
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:16:45PM -0400, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>>I find many not wanting to belong to either, only because they feel both groups need to grow up and get along, or don’t help at all. NOW, DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
>>
>>Mind you I have had these issues trying to start a local chapter here in Suffolk County. So there are people that would just not want to be part of either.
>>
>>I have been on the ACB website before, I myself don’t like the fact they still have 6-7 pages of bashing the NFB from the original break up of the NFB way back when. Many of us were not even born or children when this came about.
>>
>>And you know what they say about people being prejudice, you are not born that way it is learned.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>>Cheryl Echevarria
>>http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
>>631-456-5394
>>reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>>
>>Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
>>
>>Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, Inc.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: T. Joseph Carter<mailto:carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter developmentand Florida Council of the blind students organization development
>>
>>
>> I figure they can be ACB members not thinking of jumping ship too, as
>> long as they’re not trying to cause a constant ruckus. I personally
>> don’t even mind a debate now and then about their views versus ours.
>> If our position cannot stand up to honest debate, then we ought to
>> change it. Of course, the same holds true of theirs.
>>
>> Unfortunately, too often debates of this nature degrade to false
>> dichotomies, straw men, and your basic ad homiem. If that could be
>> avoided, we might actually get somewhere with trying to unite the
>> blindness community on at least those issues where there is common
>> ground (which is more of them than you’d think, actually!)
>>
>> I didn’t have much luck with that effort. Too many hotheads on both
>> sides. Of course I’ve got my own opinions about the distribution of
>> hotheads is to each side, and to what extent they are tolerated or
>> even welcomed by one versus the other.
>>
>> Suffice it to say that I don’t predict much unity in our future. And
>> that’s a real shame.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 06:47:52AM -0400, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>> >Problem with this, we want all blind and people to join, they can be ACB members why not especially if they are thinking of jumping ship. There are guidelines for the groups, and David Andrews can remove people.
>> >
>> >
>> >Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>> >
>> >Cheryl Echevarria
>> >http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>>
>> >631-456-5394
>> >reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>>
>> >
>> >Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
>> >
>> >Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, Inc.
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Humberto Avila<mailto:avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com<mailto:avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>>
>> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:38 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter developmentand Florida Council of the blind students organization development
>> >
>> >
>> > Actually David, can we start putting stricter guidelines for joining
>> > mailing lists from the NFB instead of just sending an email message to the
>> > mailman or filling out the form? Is there a way that there is some sort of
>> > approval process and application, for example, that you can create, for
>> > joining an NFB list? I say this because of greater security reasons. We
>> > would be less vulnerable to spam and ad messages if we do so also.
>> > Just my thoughts, Humberto
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf Of David Andrews
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:27 PM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List; acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.org%3Cmailto:acb-lions at acb.org>>; announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org%3Cmailto:announce at acb.org>>;
>> > acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org%3Cmailto:acb-hsp at acb.org>>; nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org%3Cmailto:nabs at acb.org>>; acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:acb-l at acb.org>>; acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org%3Cmailto:acb-chat at acb.org>>;
>> > fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:fcb-l at acb.org>>; leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at acb.org%3Cmailto:leadership at acb.org>>; nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org>>; fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:fabs at nfbnet.org>>;
>> > nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>>; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>; blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org>>
>> > Cc: k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com%3Cmailto:k7uij at panix.com>>; steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com%3Cmailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter development and
>> > Florida Council of the blind students organization development
>> >
>> > Are you nuts -- writing to a bunch of NFb lists to start an ACB
>> > Chapter. I have previously warned you about inappropriate messages,
>> > consequently you will be removed and banned from joining our lists.
>> >
>> > I don't care about your starting an ACB Chapter, I would rather see
>> > someone involved with them instead of nothing, but we can not and
>> > will not be the vehicle of your advertising.
>> >
>> > David Andrews, List Owner
>> >
>> > At 10:12 PM 6/21/2011, Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser wrote:
>> > >Tuesday, June 21, 2011
>> > >Hello all fcb and NFB members,
>> > > hello all blind broward county Florida citizens who are members
>> > > of the National Federation of the Blind and American Council of the
>> > > Blind. I would like to start a chapter of the Florida Council of
>> > > the blind called the Greater Broward county- greater Tamarac
>> > > Florida Council of the Blind. I would also like to start a
>> > > National alliance of blind students devision for Florida Council of
>> > > the Blind called the Greater tamarac- Greater broward county
>> > > Florida blind students Coalolission incorporated. I am looking at
>> > > establishing the chapter and blind students division in August of
>> > > 2011. I would like to get a list of people together to propose the
>> > > devision and the new chapter of FCB to Paul Edwards. I can be
>> > > contacted off list at AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com%3Cmailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com>>. I can also be
>> > > called at 1 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. I can be called on skype at
>> > > Alexander.the.great1990. Please respond as immediately as possible.
>> > >Sincerely,
>> > >Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser
>> > >
>> > >____________________________________________________________
>> > >FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
>> > >Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth<http://www.inbox.com/earth<http://www.inbox.com/earth%3Chttp://www.inbox.com/earth>>
>> >
>> >
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