[Blindtlk] Lying on a Nail
David Evans
drevans at bellsouth.net
Sun Jun 26 17:02:33 UTC 2011
Dear Chris,
They are not as imaginative as we are and just "borrowed" the same language
from us.
They even claim to be the largest organization, but their membership is far
smaller, just attend one of their conventions and you will see.
They like to party and go site seeing at their convention instead of getting
down to business and attending their General Sessions as our members do.
There will be a number of them at our National Convention next week who are
there just to get the cheap room rates so they can go to the theme parks.
Reno and Las Vegas are two of their favorite places to go to convention as
they use the disguise of a convention just for a good party trip.
This has been my experience with attending their conventions in the past.
That is why I am in the NFB and not the ACB. I want to make a difference in
Blind people's lives, not just go to a party.
There are some good people in the ACB, but I find most are not motivated the
way that NFB members are and we do not spend much of our time bashing the
other organization as they do.
This is just my opinion and not that of all of the other members of the NFB
so make up your own mind.
I will be glad to tell you about the civil war and how it came about if you
want and why it's effects are still being felt today.
Unless you were there or have been educated about it, it can not have any
meaning to you as you are too much after the fact just as if we were
discussing the revolutionary War, World War One or World War Two.
You can learn about these events, but if you did not live through them they
are just stories you will just have a hard time relating too.
David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Lying on a Nail
Then why is there this at the top of the ACB Web site and at the
beginning of each Braille Forum: "The American Council of the
Blind strives to achieve security, equality of opportunity, and
quality of life for all blind people." I'm not going all ACB on
you, but that sounds a lot like we say.
Chris
"A loss of sight, never a loss of vision!" (Camp Abilities motto)
To learn more about Camp Abilities and find a local camp near
you, just click on this link to their national Web site:
www.campabilities.org.
The I C.A.N. Foundation helps visually impaired youth in
Maryland have the ability to confidently say "I can!" How? Click
on this link to learn more and to contribute:
www.icanfoundation.info or like us on Facebook at I C.A.N.
Foundation.
Join me on Facebook: Search for Christopher Nusbaum!
Sent from my BrailleNote
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 14:41:33 -0400
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Lying on a Nail
Cindy,
I agree. In fact, I think that is the main focus of the ACB.
They don't want to offend anyone--no one but us that is.
Whenever we are fighting for change, they start fighting against
it, essentially joining the ranks of the sighted who oppose it.
They hungrily lap up the crumbs that the sighted are willing to
let fall from the table. They think they need the custodial
patronage that the sighted tend to want to dish out, and bash us
for fighting against it. Bottom line, they don't want to make
the sighted mad.
Please, please, please, don't get the impression by my last few
posts that I am antisighted. Quite the contrary. My husband is
sighted, as is the rest of my family, and I have many cherished
friends who are sighted. But, far too often the sighted do not
see us as equals, and we have fought long and hard to get to
where we are. It is seldom that we walk into a store, a school,
a gym, a job interview, whatever, and get the same reaction and
immediate respect that a sighted person would get. Do you know
what I mean?
The ACB tends to think this is okay.
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Handel
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 2:30 PM
To: nikki0222 at gmail.com; Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Lying on a Nail
Nikki,
Too often, I've heard blind people say that they don't join
groups or
organizations, because they want to be impartial and don't want
to offend
anyone. But, you know, before long, those people usually do join
a group
and it's usually the ACB.
There's no way to go through life and totally avoid disagreements
with
individuals or groups of people. You just have to learn to stand
up for
what you believe in and deal with the disagreement. It doesn't
need to be
confrontational, and it doesn't even have to be something you
can't live
with. But, if you try not to offend anyone, you're certain to be
offending
someone.
Cindy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikki Wunderlich" <nikki0222 at gmail.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Lying on a Nail
I've got to say that is an interesting story about the dog. I've
also
got to say that a lot of us "younger people" as you guys put it
have a
hard time dealing with conflict because as children and teens we
were
guilted and critizized by our families, and so we tend to want to
make
every one happy. At least that is what I've noticed amung my
blind
friends and I. I'm not saying that makes it ok to avoid
conflict, I'm
just saying. Also we tend not to want to side with people or
organizations, because in doing so we are siding with one person
or a
group of people, and that could make the other person or group
unhappy.
Nikki Wunderlich
MSN nikki0222 at gmail.com
Yahoo nikkiwunderlich at yahoo.com
AIM nikkiwunderlich at aim.com
facebook nikki0222 at gmail.com
myspace nikki0222 at gmail.com
twitter nikki022285
skype nikki022285
On 6/24/2011 10:59 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
David,
I like that story and am going to add it to my repertoire for
use
at the appropriate time! Thanks!
Marion
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Evans"
<drevans at bellsouth.net
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentandFlorida Council of the blind students organization
development
Dear Diane and All,i
I think that the problem with most Blind people being apathetic,
non-commital and "don't want to do nothing" is like the old
story
about the traveling salesman who comes to a old house in the
country
where and old man is sitting in a rocking chair with his old
hound
dog laying on the porch moaning and wiggling in his sleep.
The salesman asked the old man, "What's wrong with your dog?"
The old Man replies," He is laying on a nail."
The salesman asks, " Why doesn't he just move off the nail?" and
the
old man replies, " I guess it don't hurt him bad enough yet."
The story kind of illustrates just how allot of Blind people
are, and
I think that we see this in the general population as well. We
can
move into a comfort zone and feel that we do not need to do
anything,
or stay in an uncomfortable position and suffer quietly doing
nothing to improve our situation, or we can get up and fix the
problem by taking action and removing that darn nail.
I guess we all need to learn how to carry a hammer around with
us and
to know when and how to use it to fix what needs fixing.
David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
MV Transit Consumer Advocate
----- Original Message ----- From: "Graves, Diane"
<dgraves at icrc.IN.gov
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
development andFlorida Council of the blind students
organization
development
Hi Joseph,
I would agree with this. I think some--not all, but most--of
these
individuals who don't think that the problems are real have
family
members who are either willing to jump in and
read/transport/whatever, or they have friends in high places who
can
get them past the discrimination. Or... they have the money
they
need to bypass the system.
Unfortunately, like it or not, as proven by some of the antics
in
Hollywood over the last several years, people who have the
money,
can pretty much do whatever they want too. But yes, I would
agree,
most of the blind who think everything is okay probably aren't
as
independent as they could and should be.
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
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-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph
Carter
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
development and Florida Council of the blind students
organization
development
Diane,
I?™ll opine that if they have been so sheltered, they HAVE in
fact
experienced the discrimination and belittlement. They are just
blissfully unaware of this fact. For this, and not for their
disability, I pity them.
Joseph
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 08:34:01AM -0400, Graves, Diane wrote:
Joseph,
What you say is very true. There are also those blind
individuals
who are reluctant to get involved, because they haven't
experienced
any conflicts. They are blessed to have breezed through life,
have
had great teachers and educational systems, being well received
by
others, the things that they care about have been accessible to
them, they have experienced no belittlement or discrimination,
and
on and on. They just don't think there is really a problem,
because
they, themselves, haven't dealt with it. Do you know what I
mean?
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only
for the individual or entity(ies)
named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
recipient,
be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
distribution,
or acting in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you
have received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to
sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system
immediately.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of T. Joseph
Carter
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:29 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentand Florida Council of the blind students
organization
development
I see it as our job to be better than that. If they are
likewise,
good for them. If they are not, it?™s too bad. We know that
what we
are doing is right, and we know we are doing the right thing for
the
right reasons.
I too have seen people say that they believe both organizations
need
to "grow up". That is probably because, at times, some of us
have
appeared to react childishly. Not all of us, and not all the
time,
and there may be explanations and justifications for whatever
behavior is thus perceived, but the point stands. And it is
something we should be careful to avoid. We "win" (if there is
such
a thing as "winning") only by choosing not to play the tit for
tat
game with the ACB.
How can this be?
There are only four possible outcomes.
If neither of us are viewed as "acting like adults", the status
quo
is maintained. Not to our advantage.
If we are viewed as "acting like adults" and the ACB is not, we
benefit. This is to our advantage.
If the ACB is viewed as "acting like adults" and we are not,
they
benefit. Not to our advantage.
If both we and the ACB are viewed as "acting like adults", more
interest is likely to be shown in both organization. This is to
our
advantage.
The third variable to consider is the person whose perceptions
are
being considered. Some people are simply conflict-adverse.
They do
not care WHAT the lack of harmony is, be it a spirited debate or
an
absolute flamefest. They are likely to reject both
organizations
regardless of our behavior because they cannot cope. That?™s
not
something we as an organization can do much about.
Unfortunately, this inability to tolerate disharmony seems to
affect
the younger generations disproportionately. "Drama", as they
put it,
seems to be fine to watch on TV, but should not be experienced
in
real life. Perhaps this has something to do with why it is so
hard
to get the younger generations involved in either organization?
I?™ll not opine as to the reasons for this aversion because it
tends
to get into political ideology, and the last time we had such a
discussion on NFB lists, accusations of Nazism and the like were
bandied about.
Joseph
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 04:16:45PM -0400, cheryl echevarria
wrote:
I find many not wanting to belong to either, only because they
feel both groups need to grow up and get along, or don?™t help
at
all. NOW, DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
Mind you I have had these issues trying to start a local chapter
here in Suffolk County. So there are people that would just not
want to be part of either.
I have been on the ACB website before, I myself don?™t like the
fact they still have 6-7 pages of bashing the NFB from the
original break up of the NFB way back when. Many of us were not
even born or children when this came about.
And you know what they say about people being prejudice, you are
not born that way it is learned.
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriat
ravel.com
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
Travel, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: T. Joseph Carter<mailto:carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
To: Blind Talk Mailing List<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentand Florida Council of the blind students
organization
development
I figure they can be ACB members not thinking of jumping ship
too, as
long as they?™re not trying to cause a constant ruckus. I
personally
don?™t even mind a debate now and then about their views
versus ours.
If our position cannot stand up to honest debate, then we ought
to
change it. Of course, the same holds true of theirs.
Unfortunately, too often debates of this nature degrade to
false
dichotomies, straw men, and your basic ad homiem. If that
could be
avoided, we might actually get somewhere with trying to unite
the
blindness community on at least those issues where there is
common
ground (which is more of them than you?™d think, actually!)
I didn?™t have much luck with that effort. Too many hotheads
on both
sides. Of course I?™ve got my own opinions about the
distribution of
hotheads is to each side, and to what extent they are tolerated
or
even welcomed by one versus the other.
Suffice it to say that I don?™t predict much unity in our
future.
And
that?™s a real shame.
Joseph
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 06:47:52AM -0400, cheryl echevarria
wrote:
Problem with this, we want all blind and people to join, they
can be ACB members why not especially if they are thinking of
jumping ship. There are guidelines for the groups, and David
Andrews can remove people.
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<
http://www.echevarriatravel.com/
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriat
ravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
Travel, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Humberto
Avila<mailto:avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com<mailto:avila.bert.hum
berto2 at gmail.com
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing
List'<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
developmentand Florida Council of the blind students
organization
development
Actually David, can we start putting stricter guidelines for
joining
mailing lists from the NFB instead of just sending an email
message to the
mailman or filling out the form? Is there a way that there is
some sort of
approval process and application, for example, that you can
create, for
joining an NFB list? I say this because of greater security
reasons. We
would be less vulnerable to spam and ad messages if we do so
also.
Just my thoughts, Humberto
-----Original Message-----
From:
blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org<ma
ilto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet
.org
[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:27 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List;
acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.org<mailto:acb-lions at acb.o
rg%3Cmailto:acb-lions at acb.org>>;
announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org<mailto:announce at acb.org%
3Cmailto:announce at acb.org>>;
acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org<mailto:acb-hsp at acb.org%3Cm
ailto:acb-hsp at acb.org>>;
nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org<mailto:nabs at acb.org%3Cmailto:nab
s at acb.org>>;
acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org<mailto:acb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:
acb-l at acb.org>>;
acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org<mailto:acb-chat at acb.org%
3Cmailto:acb-chat at acb.org>>;
fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org<mailto:fcb-l at acb.org%3Cmailto:
fcb-l at acb.org>>;
leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at acb.org<mailto:leadership at ac
b.org%3Cmailto:leadership at acb.org>>;
nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org>>;
fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org<mailto:fabs at nfbnet.org%3Cm
ailto:fabs at nfbnet.org>>;
nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.o
rg%3Cmailto:nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>>;
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:nfb-talk at nf
bnet.org%3Cmailto:nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>>;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindtlk at nf
bnet.org%3Cmailto:blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Cc:
k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com<mailto:k7uij at panix.com%3Cm
ailto:k7uij at panix.com>>;
steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com<mailto:ste
ve.jacobson at visi.com%3Cmailto:steve.jacobson at visi.com
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Florida Council of the Blind Chapter
development and
Florida Council of the blind students organization development
Are you nuts -- writing to a bunch of NFb lists to start an ACB
Chapter. I have previously warned you about inappropriate
messages,
consequently you will be removed and banned from joining our
lists.
I don't care about your starting an ACB Chapter, I would rather
see
someone involved with them instead of nothing, but we can not
and
will not be the vehicle of your advertising.
David Andrews, List Owner
At 10:12 PM 6/21/2011, Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser wrote:
Tuesday, June 21, 2011
Hello all fcb and NFB members,
hello all blind broward county Florida citizens who are
members
of the National Federation of the Blind and American Council
of the
Blind. I would like to start a chapter of the Florida
Council of
the blind called the Greater Broward county- greater Tamarac
Florida Council of the Blind. I would also like to start a
National alliance of blind students devision for Florida
Council of
the Blind called the Greater tamarac- Greater broward county
Florida blind students Coalolission incorporated. I am looking
at
establishing the chapter and blind students division in
August of
2011. I would like to get a list of people together to propose
the
devision and the new chapter of FCB to Paul Edwards. I can be
contacted off list at
AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.
com<mailto:AScottKaiser10301990 at inbox.com%3Cmailto:AScottKaiser10
301990 at inbox.com>>.
I can also be
called at 1 9 7 3 5 2 5 8 0 9 6. I can be called on skype at
Alexander.the.great1990. Please respond as immediately as
possible.
Sincerely,
Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser
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