[Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?

[Steve Jacobson]

Jessica,

Since I wrote in another note a good deal about how one can maintain some independence while hanging on to the arm of another, I just felt I had to write 
after seeing your note below.  I believe that you are correct that using a cane while taking the arm of another, especially someone who is sighted, is still not 
quite the same as walking alone.  There is at some level the knowledge that you won't, for example, make a wrong turn or get lost.  You might well both get 
lost.  In a store, locating things visually such as a staff person to ask questions and other points of interest is going to usually be done by the sighted person.  
If you walk through a given area with someone else and you then later do it alone, you will generally find that it seems less familiar to you than it did when 
you were walking with the other person, because when you are walking alone you become aware of things that you subconsciously left to the other person.  

On the other hand, it is going to be difficult for someone who cares about you to handle the dirty looks.  I must also admit that I am less comfortable carrying 
on a loud conversation to keep track of the other person or have them giving me directions from somewhere ahead.  That may be just me, though, and I 
know that there are people who are fine with doing that.

Still, to me, independence is very important.  I think independence probably is more important to some of us than to others, but clearly it is important to you.  
It seems clear to me that you have an understanding of the issue and that you even have an understanding of where John is coming from.  It is going to be 
very important that you explore this issue with John to try to find a comfort zone.  It sounds as though you already are using your cane when you take his 
arm, so my perspective on that expressed in a previous note was likely old news.  I'm glad of that because using a cane while traveling with someone else is 
not something everyone considers, and it does help.  It also sounds to me as though John as some understanding of your need to travel independently.  
Maybe what might help would be to look for the times that seem to be most uncomfortable for him and walking with him during  some of those times.  In order 
to try to keep your skills and your confidence up, make a point to occasionally travel through those same places alone, either with him but separately or 
maybe just go there alone.  If there is no public transportation, have him drop you off while he runs another errand or something.  

There is not going to be one way to handle this for everybody.  People are different and even situations are different.  For example, where I work, I have to 
go to a number of different rooms within a four building complex.  I know it pretty well.  Sometimes, I attend a meeting with another co-worker, and it is 
common for co-workers to discuss the upcoming meeting during the five minutes they spend walking to the meeting room.  At least for me, it seems to make 
sense to use my cane and take my co-workers arm so that I can concentrate on discussing the meeting rather than keeping track of them.  On the other 
hand, I often attend meetings where I am the only representative of my area.  I therefore often go to the same meeting locations alone, so my confidence 
that I can get there is constantly being reinforced.  There have been times when I have felt it was important for those with whom I was meeting for the first 
time to see me traveling independently.  In such a case, I might leave my desk early and perhaps run an errand of my own before the meeting to insure that I 
would arrive alone and independently.  My point here is that I think the ability to travel independently is a skill that needs to be constantly built and 
reinforced.  Ballancing this with how we interact with others is also a challenge at times.  It seems fair to say that there are times when all of us probably take 
the arm of someone else for any number of reasons.  Doing that occasionally isn't going to destroy your travel skills as long as you are doing it for some other 
reason and you know that you could travel the same route independently.  On the other hand, having a pattern of taking someone's arm such as when you 
are in a relationship could, in my opinion, affect your travel skills if you don't build in some safeguards, so I applaud your for thinking about this.  There can 
be joy and comfort in walking hand in hand with someone with whom you share mutual love, and I wouldn't want you to feel you need to forgo all of that, 
and it may be something John needs, but I think this whole issue of indepencence and figuring out when to seek help and when to go it alone is something 
with which we must all deal and that it is too often swept under the rug so to speak.  We do have an obligation to consider the feelings of others, especially 
those who are close to us, but we also have to figure out what works best for us.  It's not always an easy line to follow, but you are going to walk this line 
more successfully because you are thinking about it.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:16:21 -0600, Jessica Kostiw wrote:

>Hello List,
>	I appreciate the amount of discussion and feedback that this topic
>has generated.  This is why I am a member of the NFB!  When we all have
>those every day quandaries, it is easy to get a number of opinions, ideas,
>and suggestions.  

>I haven't finished reading through all the messages yet, but I think I
>should clarify some.  Jon doesn't care that I bring my cane, he even
>encourages it.  Our issue is that when we are walking I worry that if I am
>always taking his elbow than I am not practicing cane travel.  At centers
>like Louisiana, Minnesota, and Colorado you are around other blind people
>24/7.  In the real world, however, the majority of time is spent with
>sighted people.  If you constently say "Oh, I'll just take your arm" than
>aren't you eventually going to lose the structure discovery that you learned
>at the center?  Won't confidence weign?  How do you strike a balance?  
>Jessica

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Brian Miller
>Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:28 PM
>To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?

>Hi Jessica,

>Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma.  I think it often
>makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted guide
>in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
>However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
>member's elbow.  It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
>while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem.  This signals deeper issues
>with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.  

>The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much on
>your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence.  I
>believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.  

>Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
>directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
>like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's your
>assistant, not your boyfirend.  These are tricky things to navigate, and the
>more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
>boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard, so
>long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your needs.


>Good luck,
>Brian Miller
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Michelle Medina
>Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?

>I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to used
>my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the time, I
>tried to just walk near her.

>On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Jessica,
>>     when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always 
>> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold 
>> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to 
>> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal 
>> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with 
>> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other. 
>> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket 
>> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
>>     I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction 
>> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her 
>> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use my
>cane too!
>>
>> fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>>
>>> Hello List,
>>> This is Jessica Kostiw.  I have been on this list for quite a while, 
>>> but do not post very often.  I am hoping to get some good advice on 
>>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>>
>>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate 
>>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is 
>>> spent with other sighted people.  My longtime boyfriend Jon is 
>>> sighted.  He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to 
>>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like.  The thing is on the 
>>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are 
>>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just 
>>> take his hand.  He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want 
>>> to be able to be independent.  I don't see why he can't just walk by 
>>> me and give me directions or something.  When we do that though, he 
>>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog.  He may as well ring a 
>>> cowbell.  He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder 
>>> for me to follow.  People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy 
>>> helping that blind lady?"  Part of me understands what he is saying, 
>>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom.  My sister is so 
>>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow.  I live in 
>>> Virginia.  There is no public transportation where I live, and I am 
>>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude 
>>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills.  This Email is focusing 
>>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our 
>>> future.  We are definitely working towards marriage and children and 
>>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on 
>>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future 
>>> children out in public.  We have already agreed that we will live in 
>>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and 
>>> can do things
>>> on my own, but again what about when we are together?   Do I have to
>>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>>
>>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>>> Jessica
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>>> http://lite.facebook.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
>well.
>>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I 
>>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would 
>>> not. Not sure what's up!
>>> Bonnie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ------
>>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using 
>>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested 
>>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't 
>>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and 
>>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't 
>>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on 
>>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>>
>>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at 
>>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>>
>>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>>
>>> Michelle Abadia
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>>
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>--
>I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
>trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is not
>my home.
>San Antonio:
>I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.

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>iowa.edu


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