[Blindtlk] jaws and ms 2010 question
Johna Lynn Nordin
jlynn1973 at verizon.net
Tue Mar 1 19:24:18 UTC 2011
Hello,
I have used jaws 11 with Microsoft 2010 and windows 7 and they work well
together. However jaws 12 have a virtual ribbon menu feature that makes all
of Microsoft's programs more user friendly.
Johna Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 8:04 AM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: blindtlk Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
blindtlk-owner at nfbnet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of blindtlk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Question re: Jaws and MS 2010 (Graves, Diane)
2. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Tony C.)
3. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Julie J)
4. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Mary Mc Gee)
5. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (David Evans)
6. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Michelle Medina)
7. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Steve Jacobson)
8. Re: Question re: Jaws and MS 2010 (Gary Wunder)
9. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Tony C.)
10. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? ( Sarah Baughn)
11. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (James Kelm)
12. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Steve P. Deeley)
13. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Jessica Kostiw)
14. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Jessica Kostiw)
15. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Jessica Kostiw)
16. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Michelle Medina)
17. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Darian Smith)
18. Re: Question re: Jaws and MS 2010 (David Andrews)
19. Re: To Cane or Not To Cane? (Cindy Handel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:09:00 -0500
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,
<nfb-indiana at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Blindtlk] Question re: Jaws and MS 2010
Message-ID:
<355B99F81FB99F48912BFDC09635433013B25BB67F at IOTMVSP03VW.shared.state.in.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
[cid:image002.gif at 01CBD748.37FB14D0]
Hi guys,
Does anyone have any experience with Jaws 11 and Microsoft 2010 and/or
windows 7? I have found these for very reasonable prices in my "student
store ," but I don't want to get ahead of myself and purchase them if they
are going to be problematic.
/Any Info. Appreciated.
Thanks
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies)
named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
in reliance
upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 7830 bytes
Desc: image002.gif
URL:
<http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/attachments/20110228/78
54a165/attachment-0001.gif>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4389 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL:
<http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/attachments/20110228/78
54a165/attachment-0001.jpg>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:32:29 -0600
From: "Tony C." <tcolon1955 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <3530E13337D74F9C8B4A8B5A47F69CB4 at AnthonyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original
Hi Diane and all,
Your comment made me think of the times when I had a guide dog and certain
people would ask me to leave her at home, stating they would assist me.
Well, of course I would have none of that! I have never faced the situation
where someone has asked me to leave my cane at home or to put it away. I of
course would have a few choice, but respectful, words for them.
I am really amazed at how in these fine United States of America so many
individuals are not educated in the reason for a white cane. Let's educate
those who are willing to learn!
Tony C.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:56:07 -0600
From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: <gwunder at earthlink.net>, "Blind Talk Mailing List"
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <00fd01cbd779$28817ae0$0201a8c0 at your07cc84feb2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes! This exactly! Gary said it better than I ever could and I completely
agree with everything he said.
Julie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Hello Jessica. In your note you ask whether you have to sacrifice your
> independence for your boyfriend. I think the answer to that is clearly no.
> If it feels to you like you're sacrificing that independence to satisfy
> someone else, keep using your cane and refuse to hold on to the arm you
> love
> but do not need. If you come to feel differently about it and can
> integrate
> what other people are telling you about holding your boyfriend's arm and
> using your cane at the same time, by all means give that a whirl.
>
> I have to admit that your message raises some red flags for me. As a state
> president in the Federation, I have to tell you that I find some women in
> poor relationships that seem to be based on "you, being a blind woman,
> give
> me a wonderful opportunity to feel like a real man! If you are dependent
> on
> me for going where you need to go, I have a great deal of say over your
> life." In the extreme, I hear these people calling one another mommy and
> daddy, and the dependence that you talk about is very very real for them.
> Some blind people eventually reject this dependence and cost themselves a
> spouse. Some fall into the trap, become dependent, their spouse tires of
> the
> continual need to lead them around and comes to find it more of a burden
> than a thrill, moves on, and the blind person has to figure out
> independence
> all over again. Don't go there. Make sure you understand what your
> boyfriend's real motivation is. It may be that he is a straight up good
> guy
> who wants you to be independent, and I presume this is so, but if he is
> looking for somebody he can quite literally lead around, beware, for more
> than your blindness independence is at stake.
>
> One other caution if you will indulge me. You say that you will get a
> house
> where public transportation is available. Many people say this. Some of
> them
> actually do it. What too often happens, however, is that they start
> looking
> at house prices or find something they just fall in love with, and
> boom--they sacrifice independent mobility with the assurance that their
> spouse won't mind taking them where they need to go. Maybe it is that they
> say they are buying a starter house and will soon move, or maybe it is
> that
> their husband already owns a house and they will live there until it
> becomes
> economically more practical to move where they can get around by
> themselves.
> Don't get in this situation. Hold out for being able to travel. Hold out
> for
> being able to get to places you need to go economically. Don't become a
> prisoner in your own house, and don't put your boyfriend and soon-to-be
> husband in the bind of having to take you everywhere. It happens far too
> frequently and it has real consequences.
>
> I was once married to a sighted woman and subscribed to the idea that when
> I
> was with someone with vision there was no need for me to bring along a
> cane.
> One day while we were walking she told me that she thought I was quite
> inconsiderate. I wondered what it was I had done that had provoked her
> anger. She said something like: "you know, we go out on these walks and
> you
> expect me to watch out for you, which doesn't bother me very much, but it
> occurred to me the other day that if I had a heart attack or sprained my
> ankle or did something that would keep me from going to get help, you've
> placed yourself in a position where you won't be able to help me. For
> somebody who talks a lot about being independent and showing consideration
> for others, I don't think you're showing much consideration or
> independence." That made me angry, but it was one of those angry feelings
> that you have when you know that probably the person who has just made you
> angry has made some good points. I never again went without a cane. I
> think
> going without a cane would feel as awkward to me as going without pants.
> Some people will patronizingly refer to it as "your badge of
> independence,"
> and I'm not sure I feel that way about it, but I do feel that it's part of
> my responsibility as a fully functional human being to take responsibility
> for myself, and, to be able to help others if I need to do it.
>
> Having said all of this, I have to say that I often use sighted guide when
> I'm traveling with someone, although sighted guide really is the wrong
> term
> because I do it whether the person is blind or sighted. I also continue to
> use my cane. If I'm walking through a crowd, I don't want our conversation
> to be interrupted by people cutting between us. It is sometimes difficult
> to
> stay with another person, and holding their arm or having them hold yours
> is
> a great way to make sure you are both going the same direction and not
> having to worry about whether your speed is coordinated and other such
> things. When I hold onto someone's arm, it is not that they are going to
> tell me where to go in most cases and it never is that I want them to
> protect me against something that my cane is capable of detecting. It is
> just that this is a very convenient way to stay with the person with whom
> I'm conversing, and it doesn't mean giving up 1 ounce of my independence.
>
> I hope some of this is helpful.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jessica Kostiw
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:41 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'; 'Pamela Allen'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> Hello List,
> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on an
> issue
> that I am sure we have all faced.
>
> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate the
> important of the travel skills I acquired there.
> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is spent
> with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is sighted. He has
> actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to go under sleep shades
> to
> see what it is like. The thing is on the one hand he is very supportive,
> but more and more when we are together in a store or something would very
> much rather that I just take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes
> more
> sense, but I want to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't
> just walk by me and give me directions or something. When we do that
> though, he says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well
> ring
> a cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder for
> me
> to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy helping that
> blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying, I have heard the
> same arguments from my mom. My sister is so impatient and always just
> insists that I take her elbow. I live in Virginia. There is no public
> transportation where I live, and I am concerned that always being around
> sighted people with this attitude will eventually cause me to lose my
> skills. This Email is focusing on the situation with Jon only because I
> am
> concerned about our future. We are definitely working towards marriage
> and
> children and all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely
> dependent on my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any
> future
> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in an
> area
> with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and can do
> things
> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>
> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
> Jessica
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Judd
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
> http://lite.facebook.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
>
> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as well.
> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I tried
> everything to get it to let us click on things but it would not. Not sure
> what's up!
> Bonnie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of humberto
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> ---- Original Message ------
> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>
> Hi.
>
> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop,
> using (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator
> suggested because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with
> jaws.
> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link",
> and when I click on something or try to write a message, the
> system won't let me. This happened overnight, because I was able
> to work on Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>
> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list
> at
> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> ?
>
> Thanks so much in advance.
>
> Michelle Abadia
> ________________________________________
> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>
> Don't forget to check out:
> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>
> _______
>
> PMList mailing list
> PMList at pacmategear.com
> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonnie%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas0805%40ch
> arter.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlin
> k.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.c
om
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:55:19 -0600
From: "Mary Mc Gee" <mmcatitude at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <FA50981C245246599014925036EA26A2 at D2JP0PJ1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Jessica;
From reading the other post, I conclude that you've already gotten
excellent advice. I have sufficient vision to walk without a cane--with
glasses, that is. My husband is totally blind. Neither one of us trusts
sighted people. We always have a cane handy when we're out and about in
case something happens to me, e.g., what would happen if by some freak
accident my glasses fell off and broke in two? I went through the Iowa
Orientation Center, so I know how to properly use a cane. Sometimes I
purposely leave my glasses off and take a walk so I won't lose the skill.
My advice: Don't give up the cane for anyone! If someone can't
accept it, they won't accept you as you are and that's not a good thing.
Sincerely,
Mary L. McGee
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jessica Kostiw
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:41 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'; 'Pamela Allen'
Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Hello List,
This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on an issue
that I am sure we have all faced.
I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate the
important of the travel skills I acquired there.
If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is spent
with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is sighted. He has
actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to go under sleep shades to
see what it is like. The thing is on the one hand he is very supportive,
but more and more when we are together in a store or something would very
much rather that I just take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more
sense, but I want to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't
just walk by me and give me directions or something. When we do that
though, he says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring
a cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder for me
to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy helping that
blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying, I have heard the
same arguments from my mom. My sister is so impatient and always just
insists that I take her elbow. I live in Virginia. There is no public
transportation where I live, and I am concerned that always being around
sighted people with this attitude will eventually cause me to lose my
skills. This Email is focusing on the situation with Jon only because I am
concerned about our future. We are definitely working towards marriage and
children and all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely
dependent on my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in an area
with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and can do things
on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
Jessica
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Judd
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
http://lite.facebook.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as well.
Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I tried
everything to get it to let us click on things but it would not. Not sure
what's up!
Bonnie
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of humberto
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
---- Original Message ------
From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
Hi.
I apologize for the unrelated topic.
I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop,
using (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator
suggested because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with
jaws.
This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link",
and when I click on something or try to write a message, the
system won't let me. This happened overnight, because I was able
to work on Facebook just 24 hours ago.
Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list
at
Michelle.abadia at verizon.net
?
Thanks so much in advance.
Michelle Abadia
________________________________________
The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
Don't forget to check out:
http://www.pacmategear.com !
_______
PMList mailing list
PMList at pacmategear.com
http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonnie%40gma
il.com
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas0805%40ch
arter.net
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
gmail.com
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/mmcatitude%40gmail
.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:44:30 -0500
From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>, "'Pamela Allen'"
<pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <89CA9524542C4394B0B1341DFC564BA9 at DAVID>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dear Jessica,
I would say this. You should always be looking out for yourself and
protecting yourself.
Walk sighted guide with your boy friend, but carry your cane, extended in
your other hand.
Keep it out there to pick up any objects on that side of your body instead
of finding it with your shin.
Hold on to your boyfriend's arm and this will keep you both together and
make it so that you both can talk and walk together arm in arm. Sounds very
romantic that way.
You should always take and use your cane. This way he will get use to it
and if you want to explore something aside from him, you can do it.
Do not let anyone talk you into be coming dependant upon them. This will
lead to resentment on both your parts at some point down the line. after
all, what would you do if he suddenly got mad and walked away and left you?
If you are afraid of that happening, you might stay with him out of fear and
that is no way to run a relationship. You need to keep your independence
and love with your heart not fear that you can not lose this person because
you need them to get around.
David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
<pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Hello List,
> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on an
> issue
> that I am sure we have all faced.
>
> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate the
> important of the travel skills I acquired there.
> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is spent
> with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is sighted. He has
> actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to go under sleep shades
> to
> see what it is like. The thing is on the one hand he is very supportive,
> but more and more when we are together in a store or something would very
> much rather that I just take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes
> more
> sense, but I want to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't
> just walk by me and give me directions or something. When we do that
> though, he says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well
> ring
> a cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder for
> me
> to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy helping that
> blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying, I have heard the
> same arguments from my mom. My sister is so impatient and always just
> insists that I take her elbow. I live in Virginia. There is no public
> transportation where I live, and I am concerned that always being around
> sighted people with this attitude will eventually cause me to lose my
> skills. This Email is focusing on the situation with Jon only because I
> am
> concerned about our future. We are definitely working towards marriage
> and
> children and all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely
> dependent on my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any
> future
> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in an
> area
> with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and can do
> things
> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>
> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
> Jessica
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Judd
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
> http://lite.facebook.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
>
> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as well.
> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I tried
> everything to get it to let us click on things but it would not. Not sure
> what's up!
> Bonnie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of humberto
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> ---- Original Message ------
> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>
> Hi.
>
> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop,
> using (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator
> suggested because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with
> jaws.
> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link",
> and when I click on something or try to write a message, the
> system won't let me. This happened overnight, because I was able
> to work on Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>
> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list
> at
> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> ?
>
> Thanks so much in advance.
>
> Michelle Abadia
> ________________________________________
> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>
> Don't forget to check out:
> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>
> _______
>
> PMList mailing list
> PMList at pacmategear.com
> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonnie%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas0805%40ch
> arter.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/drevans%40bellsout
h.net
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 14:25:07 -0500
From: Michelle Medina <michellem86 at gmail.com>
To: gwunder at earthlink.net, Blind Talk Mailing List
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinafsGpu7r56SKa7K+y=xtyqYddU=YNO_9dVa9Z at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
As far as what Gary said about housing, I couldn't agree more! Bus
transport is CRUCIAL, and I'm currently in a situation where I lack
it. I live with my parents, not a SO, but the feeling of great
disappointment is the same. I'm currently working on moving to San
Antonio TX, where other family is, but also where bus transportation
is available! I'm about a month and a half from being there!
On 2/28/11, Gary Wunder <GWunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello Jessica. In your note you ask whether you have to sacrifice your
> independence for your boyfriend. I think the answer to that is clearly no.
> If it feels to you like you're sacrificing that independence to satisfy
> someone else, keep using your cane and refuse to hold on to the arm you
love
> but do not need. If you come to feel differently about it and can
integrate
> what other people are telling you about holding your boyfriend's arm and
> using your cane at the same time, by all means give that a whirl.
>
> I have to admit that your message raises some red flags for me. As a state
> president in the Federation, I have to tell you that I find some women in
> poor relationships that seem to be based on "you, being a blind woman,
give
> me a wonderful opportunity to feel like a real man! If you are dependent
on
> me for going where you need to go, I have a great deal of say over your
> life." In the extreme, I hear these people calling one another mommy and
> daddy, and the dependence that you talk about is very very real for them.
> Some blind people eventually reject this dependence and cost themselves a
> spouse. Some fall into the trap, become dependent, their spouse tires of
the
> continual need to lead them around and comes to find it more of a burden
> than a thrill, moves on, and the blind person has to figure out
independence
> all over again. Don't go there. Make sure you understand what your
> boyfriend's real motivation is. It may be that he is a straight up good
guy
> who wants you to be independent, and I presume this is so, but if he is
> looking for somebody he can quite literally lead around, beware, for more
> than your blindness independence is at stake.
>
> One other caution if you will indulge me. You say that you will get a
house
> where public transportation is available. Many people say this. Some of
them
> actually do it. What too often happens, however, is that they start
looking
> at house prices or find something they just fall in love with, and
> boom--they sacrifice independent mobility with the assurance that their
> spouse won't mind taking them where they need to go. Maybe it is that they
> say they are buying a starter house and will soon move, or maybe it is
that
> their husband already owns a house and they will live there until it
becomes
> economically more practical to move where they can get around by
themselves.
> Don't get in this situation. Hold out for being able to travel. Hold out
for
> being able to get to places you need to go economically. Don't become a
> prisoner in your own house, and don't put your boyfriend and soon-to-be
> husband in the bind of having to take you everywhere. It happens far too
> frequently and it has real consequences.
>
> I was once married to a sighted woman and subscribed to the idea that when
I
> was with someone with vision there was no need for me to bring along a
cane.
> One day while we were walking she told me that she thought I was quite
> inconsiderate. I wondered what it was I had done that had provoked her
> anger. She said something like: "you know, we go out on these walks and
you
> expect me to watch out for you, which doesn't bother me very much, but it
> occurred to me the other day that if I had a heart attack or sprained my
> ankle or did something that would keep me from going to get help, you've
> placed yourself in a position where you won't be able to help me. For
> somebody who talks a lot about being independent and showing consideration
> for others, I don't think you're showing much consideration or
> independence." That made me angry, but it was one of those angry feelings
> that you have when you know that probably the person who has just made you
> angry has made some good points. I never again went without a cane. I
think
> going without a cane would feel as awkward to me as going without pants.
> Some people will patronizingly refer to it as "your badge of
independence,"
> and I'm not sure I feel that way about it, but I do feel that it's part of
> my responsibility as a fully functional human being to take responsibility
> for myself, and, to be able to help others if I need to do it.
>
> Having said all of this, I have to say that I often use sighted guide when
> I'm traveling with someone, although sighted guide really is the wrong
term
> because I do it whether the person is blind or sighted. I also continue to
> use my cane. If I'm walking through a crowd, I don't want our conversation
> to be interrupted by people cutting between us. It is sometimes difficult
to
> stay with another person, and holding their arm or having them hold yours
is
> a great way to make sure you are both going the same direction and not
> having to worry about whether your speed is coordinated and other such
> things. When I hold onto someone's arm, it is not that they are going to
> tell me where to go in most cases and it never is that I want them to
> protect me against something that my cane is capable of detecting. It is
> just that this is a very convenient way to stay with the person with whom
> I'm conversing, and it doesn't mean giving up 1 ounce of my independence.
>
> I hope some of this is helpful.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jessica Kostiw
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 3:41 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'; 'Pamela Allen'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> Hello List,
> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on an
issue
> that I am sure we have all faced.
>
> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate the
> important of the travel skills I acquired there.
> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is spent
> with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is sighted. He has
> actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to go under sleep shades
to
> see what it is like. The thing is on the one hand he is very supportive,
> but more and more when we are together in a store or something would very
> much rather that I just take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes
more
> sense, but I want to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't
> just walk by me and give me directions or something. When we do that
> though, he says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well
ring
> a cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder for
me
> to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy helping that
> blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying, I have heard the
> same arguments from my mom. My sister is so impatient and always just
> insists that I take her elbow. I live in Virginia. There is no public
> transportation where I live, and I am concerned that always being around
> sighted people with this attitude will eventually cause me to lose my
> skills. This Email is focusing on the situation with Jon only because I
am
> concerned about our future. We are definitely working towards marriage
and
> children and all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely
> dependent on my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any
future
> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in an
area
> with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and can do
things
> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>
> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
> Jessica
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Judd
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
> http://lite.facebook.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
>
> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as well.
> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I tried
> everything to get it to let us click on things but it would not. Not sure
> what's up!
> Bonnie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of humberto
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>
> ---- Original Message ------
> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>
> Hi.
>
> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop,
> using (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator
> suggested because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with
> jaws.
> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link",
> and when I click on something or try to write a message, the
> system won't let me. This happened overnight, because I was able
> to work on Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>
> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list
> at
> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> ?
>
> Thanks so much in advance.
>
> Michelle Abadia
> ________________________________________
> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>
> Don't forget to check out:
> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>
> _______
>
> PMList mailing list
> PMList at pacmategear.com
> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonnie%40gma
> il.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas0805%40ch
> arter.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/gwunder%40earthlin
> k.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%40gmai
l.com
>
--
I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that
is not my home.
San Antonio:
I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:05:21 -0600
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <auto-000000408314 at mailback3.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jessica,
Learning to travel independently takes practice and while one is learning, I
think it is really important to travel completely independently. I assume,
though,
that you have already done that from what you have said.
For whatever reason, I have always found it difficult to travel
independently but still keep track of another person, particularly when
there are other sounds
to get in the way. It doesn't really matter to me if they are blind or
sighted. Therefore, even when I am trying to walk and carry on a
conversation with
another blind person, I will often take their arm or have them take mine.
However, whether I am walking with a sighted or blind person, I continue to
use my
cane and take responsibility for my own safety. I don't depend upon them to
notify me of curbs or steps. This also permits me to walk next to them. In
other
words, my reason for taking their arm is not so much to be guided as to
simply avoid the problems I have following. Particularly with another blind
person, I
find that it is easy for our paths to cross or to diverge as we are walking
as we both concentrate on our routes.
I have also found, though, that if I walk with someone, I just don't keep as
close track of where I am even when using a cane. I find that I learn an
area
best when I am walking alone. There are also times when a walkway becomes
narrow when it is easiest to walk along and then rejoin whomever I am
walking with after the walkway is wider again.
You are dealing with a situation that isn't always easy. There are
sometimes motivations that go deeper than the surface of which we have to be
aware. A
parent or even a sighted partner may well be embarrassed or frustrated by
constantly having to talk so we know where they are, and even if they were
to
wear something that makes a sound, conversation might be difficult. Yet,
there is sometimes an issue of control involved, too, and watching for that
is also
important. One has to figure out who they are and how they are most
comfortable relating with the world. Traveling under sleepshades will help
your
boyfriend understand the mechanics, but it won't help him understand some of
the struggles we all undergo to be independent. He will probably understand
less why you don't just take his hand. Maybe taking his hand and using a
cane can be a good compromise if framed correctly. Don't let it diminish
your
independence, though. If you have a lot of close sighted friends, it would
be easy to let the act of taking an arm also erode your hard-won travel
skills.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Sun, 27 Feb 2011 15:41:25 -0600, Jessica Kostiw wrote:
>Hello List,
> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on an
issue
>that I am sure we have all faced.
>I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate the
>important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is spent
>with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is sighted. He has
>actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to go under sleep shades
to
>see what it is like. The thing is on the one hand he is very supportive,
>but more and more when we are together in a store or something would very
>much rather that I just take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more
>sense, but I want to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't
>just walk by me and give me directions or something. When we do that
>though, he says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well
ring
>a cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder for me
>to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy helping that
>blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying, I have heard the
>same arguments from my mom. My sister is so impatient and always just
>insists that I take her elbow. I live in Virginia. There is no public
>transportation where I live, and I am concerned that always being around
>sighted people with this attitude will eventually cause me to lose my
>skills. This Email is focusing on the situation with Jon only because I am
>concerned about our future. We are definitely working towards marriage and
>children and all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely
>dependent on my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any
future
>children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in an
area
>with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and can do things
>on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>Jessica
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Chris Judd
>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>http://lite.facebook.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as well.
>Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I tried
>everything to get it to let us click on things but it would not. Not sure
>what's up!
>Bonnie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of humberto
>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>---- Original Message ------
>From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>Hi.
>I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop,
>using (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator
>suggested because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with
>jaws.
>This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link",
>and when I click on something or try to write a message, the
>system won't let me. This happened overnight, because I was able
>to work on Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list
>at
>Michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>?
>Thanks so much in advance.
>Michelle Abadia
>________________________________________
>The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>Don't forget to check out:
>http://www.pacmategear.com !
>_______
>PMList mailing list
>PMList at pacmategear.com
>http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonnie%40gm
a
>il.com
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas0805%40c
h
>arter.net
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>blindtlk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%4
0
>gmail.com
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40
visi.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:25:55 -0600
From: "Gary Wunder" <GWunder at earthlink.net>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Question re: Jaws and MS 2010
Message-ID: <BE889A83F99F4313B6BC0BA6D8A44A52 at GaryWunderPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Windows 7 is fine. There are beginning to be training materials for Word
2010 and you will need some because it is quite different from 2003.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Graves, Diane
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 12:09 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'; nfb-indiana at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Blindtlk] Question re: Jaws and MS 2010
[cid:image002.gif at 01CBD748.37FB14D0]
Hi guys,
Does anyone have any experience with Jaws 11 and Microsoft 2010 and/or
windows 7? I have found these for very reasonable prices in my "student
store ," but I don't want to get ahead of myself and purchase them if they
are going to be problematic.
/Any Info. Appreciated.
Thanks
Diane Graves
Civil Rights Specialist
Indiana Civil Rights Commission
Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
317-232-2647
"It is service that measures success."
George Washington Carver
Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
entity(ies) named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended
recipient, be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying,
distribution, or acting in reliance upon the contents of this E-mail is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this E-mail transmission in error,
please reply to sender to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the
transmission. Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:27:40 -0600
From: "Tony C." <tcolon1955 at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <60FD013502AB441BBF79BEF80F401392 at AnthonyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=original
Hi all,
I wanted to chime in on this topic. I always carry my cane fully extended,
whether I am walking with a sighted guide or a blind person. However, my
sons are so good at guiding without even saying a word that I carry my cane
close to my body only as an identification tool when I am with them. There
are on the other hand some folks who simply don't instill much confidence in
their abilities to allow me to give them control of my mobility. No
matter who I am with, however, I always stayed tuned in to my surroundings
as if I was by myself. This helps me to stay sharp with my cane skills.
Thanks for reading,
Tony C.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:09:02 -0800
From: " Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <1E6DAB7404F246D8BCEF487474DEB181 at P6825>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Diane, the stick thing drives me up a wall too. I always tell the person
who calls it a "stick" that it's a cane. I always find myself thinking: "If
a stick were all I needed to use to get around, I would just go carve one
off a tree somewhere." I mean, that would be a lot cheaper than having tto
by one, right?
Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> HiJessica and All,
>
> These are all excellent points. I remember many years ago, I was in a
> relationship with a guy who was high partial. When we would walk I would
> generally take his arm and didn't usually use a cane. One day, one of the
> members of my church, who didn't know my boyfriend, saw us together and
> later asked me "is that your guide?" Needless to say that was pretty
> humiliating for me. He thought the guy was my personal assistant, or my
> guide.
>
> I now always use my cane in conjunction with a sighted guide. Whenever I
> am with my dad and stepmother, I am generally gritting my teeth, as she
> says "leave your stick." The "stick" thing makes me crazy, and then her
> telling me to put it away makes me livid. I always try to calmly assert
> that, no, I'm not going to put it away. I do this either by making the
> statement or by ignoring the command.
>
>
> Diane Graves
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
> entity(ies)
> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or acting
> in reliance
> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Miller
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:28 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> Hi Jessica,
>
> Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it often
> makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted guide
> in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
> However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
> member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
> while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
> issues
> with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
>
> The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much
> on
> your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
> believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
>
> Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
> directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
> like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
> your
> assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
> the
> more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
> boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard, so
> long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
> needs.
>
>
> Good luck,
> Brian Miller
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Michelle Medina
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to used
> my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the time,
> I
> tried to just walk near her.
>
> On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Jessica,
>> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
>> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
>> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
>> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
>> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
>> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
>> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
>> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
>> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
>> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
>> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use my
> cane too!
>>
>> fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>>
>>> Hello List,
>>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>>
>>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>>> can do things
>>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>>
>>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>>> Jessica
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>>> http://lite.facebook.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
> well.
>>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>>> not. Not sure what's up!
>>> Bonnie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ------
>>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>>
>>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>>
>>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>>
>>> Michelle Abadia
>>> ________________________________________
>>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>>
>>> Don't forget to check out:
>>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>>
>>> _______
>>>
>>> PMList mailing list
>>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>>> e%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>>> 05%40ch
>>> arter.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>>> stiw%40
>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>>> verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
> trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
> not
> my home.
> San Antonio:
> I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
> iowa.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.
gov
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcas
t.net
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 19:50:15 -0600
From: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <000501cbd7b3$03d50100$7001a8c0 at domain.actdsltmp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear friends,
Well everyone is said to have an opinion, and of course I am no different.
I appreciate and support all of the comments that have been made on this
list, and it would seem that my own viewpoint is a bit different from some.
I am married to a sighted woman, and I have never found it to be a
difficulty to give over quote unquote "control", when it seems appropriate.
While I am extremely independent as a blind person, I am not independent as
a husband. As a married couple, we form a union that capitalizes on each
other's strength in any specific situation, forming a stronger unit
together. For example, my wife is completely willing and capable of moving
furniture in our house. I am however, more easily able to accomplish this.
So when she needs a sofa moved, I undertake this activity as a kind of
courtesy to her. I am fully able to guide myself, and quite often can be
found tooling around on my own. On the other hand, she is obviously more
easily able to guide us in some situations, so I find it completely
comfortable for me to allow her to take "control" when we are in such
situations. We both help to work together to accomplish our goals as a
unit, so it isn't a big deal for us to lean on each other for assistance
when appropriate. She leans on me to perform maintenance on our household
computers, because I am more comfortable working around computers. I turn
control over to her when it is supper time, because I love her and do not
wish to poison her with my cooking attempts. We share our life together,
and sharing for us, means that no one is subordinate or dominate. We are a
unit.
This is simply how it works for us, and I am not attempting to suggest
what I think is generally true for anyone else. Again, this is just what
works for us.
Now I have to go and move something heavy for my wife. I just hope that
I move what she would like to be moved! LOLL
Your Brother in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: " Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Diane, the stick thing drives me up a wall too. I always tell the person
> who calls it a "stick" that it's a cane. I always find myself thinking:
"If
> a stick were all I needed to use to get around, I would just go carve one
> off a tree somewhere." I mean, that would be a lot cheaper than having
tto
> by one, right?
> Sarah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
> > HiJessica and All,
> >
> > These are all excellent points. I remember many years ago, I was in a
> > relationship with a guy who was high partial. When we would walk I would
> > generally take his arm and didn't usually use a cane. One day, one of
the
> > members of my church, who didn't know my boyfriend, saw us together and
> > later asked me "is that your guide?" Needless to say that was pretty
> > humiliating for me. He thought the guy was my personal assistant, or my
> > guide.
> >
> > I now always use my cane in conjunction with a sighted guide. Whenever I
> > am with my dad and stepmother, I am generally gritting my teeth, as she
> > says "leave your stick." The "stick" thing makes me crazy, and then her
> > telling me to put it away makes me livid. I always try to calmly assert
> > that, no, I'm not going to put it away. I do this either by making the
> > statement or by ignoring the command.
> >
> >
> > Diane Graves
> > Civil Rights Specialist
> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > 317-232-2647
> >
> > "It is service that measures success."
> > George Washington Carver
> >
> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
confidential
> > and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual
or
> > entity(ies)
> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
acting
> > in reliance
> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Brian Miller
> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:28 PM
> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >
> > Hi Jessica,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it
often
> > makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted
guide
> > in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk
together.
> > However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
> > member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
> > while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
> > issues
> > with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
> >
> > The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as
much
> > on
> > your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
> > believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
> >
> > Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
> > directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to
feel
> > like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
> > your
> > assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
> > the
> > more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
> > boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard,
so
> > long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
> > needs.
> >
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Brian Miller
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Michelle Medina
> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >
> > I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to
used
> > my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the
time,
> > I
> > tried to just walk near her.
> >
> > On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Jessica,
> >> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
> >> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
> >> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
> >> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
> >> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
> >> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
> >> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
> >> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after
that.
> >> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
> >> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
> >> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use
my
> > cane too!
> >>
> >> fraternally yours,
> >> Marion Gwizdala
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
> >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
> >> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hello List,
> >>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
> >>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
> >>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
> >>>
> >>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
> >>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
> >>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
> >>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
> >>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
> >>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
> >>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
> >>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
> >>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
> >>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
> >>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
> >>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
> >>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
> >>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
> >>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
> >>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
> >>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
> >>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
> >>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
> >>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
> >>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
> >>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
> >>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
> >>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
> >>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
> >>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
> >>> can do things
> >>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
> >>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
> >>>
> >>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
> >>> Jessica
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
> >>> http://lite.facebook.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
> > well.
> >>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
> >>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
> >>> not. Not sure what's up!
> >>> Bonnie
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
> >>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>> ---- Original Message ------
> >>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> >>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
> >>>
> >>> Hi.
> >>>
> >>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
> >>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
> >>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
> >>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
> >>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
> >>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
> >>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
> >>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
> >>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
> >>>
> >>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
> >>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks so much in advance.
> >>>
> >>> Michelle Abadia
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
> >>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
> >>>
> >>> Don't forget to check out:
> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
> >>>
> >>> _______
> >>>
> >>> PMList mailing list
> >>> PMList at pacmategear.com
> >>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
> >>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
> >>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
> >>> e%40gma
> >>> il.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
> >>> 05%40ch
> >>> arter.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
> >>> stiw%40
> >>> gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
> >>> verizon.net
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
> >> 40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
> > trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
> > not
> > my home.
> > San Antonio:
> > I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
> > iowa.edu
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.
gov
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcas
t.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jameskelm%40earthl
ink.net
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 20:42:44 -0500
From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <0E97482CB0CE490DAADB4B1B8267A57E at StevePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Well stated Pastor!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Kelm" <jameskelm at earthlink.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Dear friends,
>
> Well everyone is said to have an opinion, and of course I am no different.
> I appreciate and support all of the comments that have been made on this
> list, and it would seem that my own viewpoint is a bit different from
> some.
>
> I am married to a sighted woman, and I have never found it to be a
> difficulty to give over quote unquote "control", when it seems
> appropriate.
> While I am extremely independent as a blind person, I am not independent
> as
> a husband. As a married couple, we form a union that capitalizes on each
> other's strength in any specific situation, forming a stronger unit
> together. For example, my wife is completely willing and capable of
> moving
> furniture in our house. I am however, more easily able to accomplish
> this.
> So when she needs a sofa moved, I undertake this activity as a kind of
> courtesy to her. I am fully able to guide myself, and quite often can be
> found tooling around on my own. On the other hand, she is obviously more
> easily able to guide us in some situations, so I find it completely
> comfortable for me to allow her to take "control" when we are in such
> situations. We both help to work together to accomplish our goals as a
> unit, so it isn't a big deal for us to lean on each other for assistance
> when appropriate. She leans on me to perform maintenance on our household
> computers, because I am more comfortable working around computers. I turn
> control over to her when it is supper time, because I love her and do not
> wish to poison her with my cooking attempts. We share our life together,
> and sharing for us, means that no one is subordinate or dominate. We are
> a
> unit.
>
> This is simply how it works for us, and I am not attempting to suggest
> what I think is generally true for anyone else. Again, this is just what
> works for us.
>
> Now I have to go and move something heavy for my wife. I just hope
> that
> I move what she would like to be moved! LOLL
>
>
> Your Brother in Christ,
> Pastor James Kelm
> Foundational Christian Family Ministry
> www.fcfministry.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: " Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
>> Diane, the stick thing drives me up a wall too. I always tell the person
>> who calls it a "stick" that it's a cane. I always find myself thinking:
> "If
>> a stick were all I needed to use to get around, I would just go carve one
>> off a tree somewhere." I mean, that would be a lot cheaper than having
> tto
>> by one, right?
>> Sarah
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>>
>> > HiJessica and All,
>> >
>> > These are all excellent points. I remember many years ago, I was in a
>> > relationship with a guy who was high partial. When we would walk I
>> > would
>> > generally take his arm and didn't usually use a cane. One day, one of
> the
>> > members of my church, who didn't know my boyfriend, saw us together
>> > and
>> > later asked me "is that your guide?" Needless to say that was pretty
>> > humiliating for me. He thought the guy was my personal assistant, or my
>> > guide.
>> >
>> > I now always use my cane in conjunction with a sighted guide. Whenever
>> > I
>> > am with my dad and stepmother, I am generally gritting my teeth, as she
>> > says "leave your stick." The "stick" thing makes me crazy, and then her
>> > telling me to put it away makes me livid. I always try to calmly assert
>> > that, no, I'm not going to put it away. I do this either by making the
>> > statement or by ignoring the command.
>> >
>> >
>> > Diane Graves
>> > Civil Rights Specialist
>> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> > 317-232-2647
>> >
>> > "It is service that measures success."
>> > George Washington Carver
>> >
>> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
> confidential
>> > and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual
> or
>> > entity(ies)
>> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> acting
>> > in reliance
>> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Brian Miller
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:28 PM
>> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>> >
>> > Hi Jessica,
>> >
>> > Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it
> often
>> > makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted
> guide
>> > in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk
> together.
>> > However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
>> > member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
>> > while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
>> > issues
>> > with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
>> >
>> > The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as
> much
>> > on
>> > your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence.
>> > I
>> > believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
>> >
>> > Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
>> > directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to
> feel
>> > like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
>> > your
>> > assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate,
>> > and
>> > the
>> > more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that
>> > your
>> > boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard,
> so
>> > long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
>> > needs.
>> >
>> >
>> > Good luck,
>> > Brian Miller
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On
>> > Behalf Of Michelle Medina
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>> >
>> > I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to
> used
>> > my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the
> time,
>> > I
>> > tried to just walk near her.
>> >
>> > On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> Jessica,
>> >> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
>> >> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
>> >> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
>> >> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
>> >> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
>> >> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
>> >> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
>> >> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after
> that.
>> >> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
>> >> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
>> >> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use
> my
>> > cane too!
>> >>
>> >> fraternally yours,
>> >> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela
>> >> Allen'"
>> >> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Hello List,
>> >>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>> >>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>> >>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>> >>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>> >>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>> >>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>> >>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>> >>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>> >>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>> >>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>> >>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>> >>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>> >>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>> >>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>> >>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>> >>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>> >>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>> >>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>> >>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>> >>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>> >>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>> >>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>> >>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>> >>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>> >>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>> >>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>> >>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>> >>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>> >>> can do things
>> >>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>> >>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>> >>>
>> >>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>> >>> Jessica
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> >>>
>> >>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>> >>> http://lite.facebook.com
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>> >>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
>> > well.
>> >>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>> >>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>> >>> not. Not sure what's up!
>> >>> Bonnie
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>> >>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> >>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> >>>
>> >>> ---- Original Message ------
>> >>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>> >>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> >>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi.
>> >>>
>> >>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>> >>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>> >>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>> >>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>> >>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>> >>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>> >>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>> >>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>> >>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>> >>>
>> >>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>> >>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks so much in advance.
>> >>>
>> >>> Michelle Abadia
>> >>> ________________________________________
>> >>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>> >>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>> >>>
>> >>> Don't forget to check out:
>> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>> >>>
>> >>> _______
>> >>>
>> >>> PMList mailing list
>> >>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>> >>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>> >>>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>> >>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>> >>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>> >>> e%40gma
>> >>> il.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>> >>> 05%40ch
>> >>> arter.net
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>> >>> stiw%40
>> >>> gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> blindtlk mailing list
>> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >>> blindtlk:
>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>> >>> verizon.net
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> blindtlk mailing list
>> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> blindtlk:
>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
>> >> 40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
>> > trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that
>> > is
>> > not
>> > my home.
>> > San Antonio:
>> > I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
>> > iowa.edu
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.
gov
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > blindtlk mailing list
>> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > blindtlk:
>> >
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcas
t.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jameskelm%40earthl
ink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
sightbb.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11
14:34:00
-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3474 - Release Date: 02/28/11
14:34:00
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:16:21 -0600
From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <AA9062C18470498A8E73301884D767D6 at Jessica>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you again for the continued discussion. Living in a location where I
can travel independently is not lost on me... though financially right now
that isn't possible. I live in the suburbs where there is no public
transportation, where it is just get in one car to the other. So I am
probably more sensitive about it all right now do to that. I am leaving
W/day for a friend's wedding in Salt lake. I am excited, this will give me
another opportunity to travel completely independently. I think I am
pushing the using my cane thing with Jon because of the situation I am in
now. My issue with Jon is not really that he is embarrassed about my
having a cane or holding it. It's just that he feels like it is more of a
hassle to take ten minutes longer to go through a store when I do not take
his arm and walk around with the cane alone. Also, he says he gets a lot of
dirty looks from people who glare at him for not assisting me. I see his
points, but again I am afraid that if every time we are together and I take
his arm and hold the cane than I will lose my discovery ability.
Jessica
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of James Kelm
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 7:50 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Dear friends,
Well everyone is said to have an opinion, and of course I am no different.
I appreciate and support all of the comments that have been made on this
list, and it would seem that my own viewpoint is a bit different from some.
I am married to a sighted woman, and I have never found it to be a
difficulty to give over quote unquote "control", when it seems appropriate.
While I am extremely independent as a blind person, I am not independent as
a husband. As a married couple, we form a union that capitalizes on each
other's strength in any specific situation, forming a stronger unit
together. For example, my wife is completely willing and capable of moving
furniture in our house. I am however, more easily able to accomplish this.
So when she needs a sofa moved, I undertake this activity as a kind of
courtesy to her. I am fully able to guide myself, and quite often can be
found tooling around on my own. On the other hand, she is obviously more
easily able to guide us in some situations, so I find it completely
comfortable for me to allow her to take "control" when we are in such
situations. We both help to work together to accomplish our goals as a
unit, so it isn't a big deal for us to lean on each other for assistance
when appropriate. She leans on me to perform maintenance on our household
computers, because I am more comfortable working around computers. I turn
control over to her when it is supper time, because I love her and do not
wish to poison her with my cooking attempts. We share our life together,
and sharing for us, means that no one is subordinate or dominate. We are a
unit.
This is simply how it works for us, and I am not attempting to suggest
what I think is generally true for anyone else. Again, this is just what
works for us.
Now I have to go and move something heavy for my wife. I just hope that
I move what she would like to be moved! LOLL
Your Brother in Christ,
Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org
----- Original Message -----
From: " Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Diane, the stick thing drives me up a wall too. I always tell the person
> who calls it a "stick" that it's a cane. I always find myself thinking:
"If
> a stick were all I needed to use to get around, I would just go carve one
> off a tree somewhere." I mean, that would be a lot cheaper than having
tto
> by one, right?
> Sarah
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
> > HiJessica and All,
> >
> > These are all excellent points. I remember many years ago, I was in a
> > relationship with a guy who was high partial. When we would walk I would
> > generally take his arm and didn't usually use a cane. One day, one of
the
> > members of my church, who didn't know my boyfriend, saw us together and
> > later asked me "is that your guide?" Needless to say that was pretty
> > humiliating for me. He thought the guy was my personal assistant, or my
> > guide.
> >
> > I now always use my cane in conjunction with a sighted guide. Whenever I
> > am with my dad and stepmother, I am generally gritting my teeth, as she
> > says "leave your stick." The "stick" thing makes me crazy, and then her
> > telling me to put it away makes me livid. I always try to calmly assert
> > that, no, I'm not going to put it away. I do this either by making the
> > statement or by ignoring the command.
> >
> >
> > Diane Graves
> > Civil Rights Specialist
> > Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> > Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> > 317-232-2647
> >
> > "It is service that measures success."
> > George Washington Carver
> >
> > Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
confidential
> > and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual
or
> > entity(ies)
> > named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> > advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or
acting
> > in reliance
> > upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
> > received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
> > arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
> > Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Brian Miller
> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:28 PM
> > To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >
> > Hi Jessica,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it
often
> > makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted
guide
> > in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk
together.
> > However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
> > member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
> > while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
> > issues
> > with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
> >
> > The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as
much
> > on
> > your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
> > believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
> >
> > Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
> > directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to
feel
> > like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
> > your
> > assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
> > the
> > more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
> > boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard,
so
> > long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
> > needs.
> >
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Brian Miller
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Michelle Medina
> > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >
> > I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to
used
> > my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the
time,
> > I
> > tried to just walk near her.
> >
> > On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Jessica,
> >> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
> >> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
> >> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
> >> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
> >> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
> >> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
> >> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
> >> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after
that.
> >> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
> >> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
> >> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use
my
> > cane too!
> >>
> >> fraternally yours,
> >> Marion Gwizdala
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
> >> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
> >> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
> >> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hello List,
> >>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
> >>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
> >>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
> >>>
> >>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
> >>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
> >>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
> >>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
> >>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
> >>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
> >>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
> >>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
> >>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
> >>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
> >>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
> >>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
> >>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
> >>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
> >>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
> >>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
> >>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
> >>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
> >>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
> >>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
> >>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
> >>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
> >>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
> >>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
> >>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
> >>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
> >>> can do things
> >>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
> >>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
> >>>
> >>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
> >>> Jessica
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
> >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
> >>> http://lite.facebook.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
> > well.
> >>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
> >>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
> >>> not. Not sure what's up!
> >>> Bonnie
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
> >>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>>
> >>> ---- Original Message ------
> >>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
> >>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
> >>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
> >>>
> >>> Hi.
> >>>
> >>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
> >>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
> >>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
> >>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
> >>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
> >>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
> >>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
> >>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
> >>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
> >>>
> >>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
> >>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks so much in advance.
> >>>
> >>> Michelle Abadia
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
> >>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
> >>>
> >>> Don't forget to check out:
> >>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
> >>>
> >>> _______
> >>>
> >>> PMList mailing list
> >>> PMList at pacmategear.com
> >>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
> >>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
> >>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
> >>> e%40gma
> >>> il.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
> >>> 05%40ch
> >>> arter.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
> >>> stiw%40
> >>> gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindtlk mailing list
> >>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> blindtlk:
> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
> >>> verizon.net
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindtlk mailing list
> >> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindtlk:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
> >> 40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
> > trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
> > not
> > my home.
> > San Antonio:
> > I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
> > iowa.edu
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dgraves%40icrc.in.
gov
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindtlk mailing list
> > blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > blindtlk:
> >
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/sarahb006%40comcas
t.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jameskelm%40earthl
ink.net
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:16:21 -0600
From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <307EF2F27662410DAD0EB86E0E7109F6 at Jessica>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello List,
I appreciate the amount of discussion and feedback that this topic
has generated. This is why I am a member of the NFB! When we all have
those every day quandaries, it is easy to get a number of opinions, ideas,
and suggestions.
I haven't finished reading through all the messages yet, but I think I
should clarify some. Jon doesn't care that I bring my cane, he even
encourages it. Our issue is that when we are walking I worry that if I am
always taking his elbow than I am not practicing cane travel. At centers
like Louisiana, Minnesota, and Colorado you are around other blind people
24/7. In the real world, however, the majority of time is spent with
sighted people. If you constently say "Oh, I'll just take your arm" than
aren't you eventually going to lose the structure discovery that you learned
at the center? Won't confidence weign? How do you strike a balance?
Jessica
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Miller
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:28 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Hi Jessica,
Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it often
makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted guide
in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper issues
with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much on
your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's your
assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and the
more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard, so
long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your needs.
Good luck,
Brian Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Michelle Medina
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to used
my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the time, I
tried to just walk near her.
On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Jessica,
> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use my
cane too!
>
> fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
>> Hello List,
>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>
>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>> can do things
>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>
>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>> Jessica
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>> http://lite.facebook.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>>
>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
well.
>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>> not. Not sure what's up!
>> Bonnie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>> ---- Original Message ------
>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>
>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>
>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>
>> Michelle Abadia
>> ________________________________________
>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>
>> Don't forget to check out:
>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>
>> _______
>>
>> PMList mailing list
>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>> e%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>> 05%40ch
>> arter.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>> stiw%40
>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>> verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
> 40gmail.com
>
--
I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is not
my home.
San Antonio:
I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
iowa.edu
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:16:21 -0600
From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
To: "'Jeanette Fortin'" <jeanette at fortin-home.com>, "'Blind Talk
Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <CE89C23AFB0745F4B609B5E35D64A6B1 at Jessica>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jeanette, this is exactly the type of situation I am trying to avoid
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jeanette Fortin
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:02 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List I want to maintain my independence.
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Jessica, I was married to a sighted man for 20 years, in thos eyears i did
ot carry my cane, i didn't really go much of anywhere on my own and I still
do nt go much of anywhere on my own, I usually have achild with me. But
since I started with NFB a year ago i drug out my old cane from high school
and carry it with me, my friends have a mixed response, some of them
haven'really said anything, others are concerned i don't trust them and
others don't see the need.
Although I have some vision I find that having the cane withme makes me feel
safer and makes me wish I had sued it through the years, my skills are rusty
and when I went to the national convention last year I used it a lot
wondering around the big hotel in Dallas.
I personally think after having been married to a sighted person who felt
no need for my cane, that i wished i had used it, i lost a lot of my
independance and confidence in my ability to get around alone.
Previous to marrying i had lived and worked in Dallas and went everywhere on
my own and I am looking forward to developing that confidence and
independance again. Jeanette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
> Hi Jessica,
>
> Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it often
> makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted guide
> in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
> However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
> member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
> while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
> issues
> with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
>
> The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much
> on
> your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
> believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
>
> Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
> directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
> like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
> your
> assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
> the
> more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
> boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard, so
> long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
> needs.
>
>
> Good luck,
> Brian Miller
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Michelle Medina
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to used
> my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the time,
> I
> tried to just walk near her.
>
> On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Jessica,
>> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
>> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
>> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
>> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
>> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
>> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
>> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
>> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
>> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
>> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
>> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use my
> cane too!
>>
>> fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>>
>>> Hello List,
>>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>>
>>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>>> can do things
>>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>>
>>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>>> Jessica
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>>> http://lite.facebook.com
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
> well.
>>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>>> not. Not sure what's up!
>>> Bonnie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>
>>> ---- Original Message ------
>>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>>
>>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>>
>>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>>
>>> Michelle Abadia
>>> ________________________________________
>>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>>
>>> Don't forget to check out:
>>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>>
>>> _______
>>>
>>> PMList mailing list
>>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>>> e%40gma
>>> il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>>> 05%40ch
>>> arter.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>>> stiw%40
>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>>> verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
> trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
> not
> my home.
> San Antonio:
> I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
> iowa.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-
home.com
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 02:18:06 -0500
From: Michelle Medina <michellem86 at gmail.com>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID:
<AANLkTin6cSfV9e=YbfPTLMe=6TSMiD1+RhiWpzNwfSb=@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jessica,
I completely don't mean to sound harsh, but as to the first issue you
raised, he'll just have to put up with the dirty looks. As I said, I
completely don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can handle it and he
can handle it, then it doesn't matter what looks he's getting. I have
plenty of experience with this for a different reason. I was born with
a very rare birthdefect called a Tessier Cleft and have had 66
reconstructive surgeries to close my face and build up bone structure.
People stare all the time, it just comes with the territory, so the
only two options are to deal with it or never go out in public. In
your case, the option would be to use your cane anyway or not use it
and lose your independence.
As to the second question, that's why it is important to use the cane
no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. I even use it in
crowds along with some sighted guide assistance as needed.
When we went to marte gra last Febuary when I was in la, there wasn't
a ton of sighted guide going on. There was some, but not alot. It was
mostly up to us to keep up with our groups and if you weren't there
when the group hit the next corner, they'd stop and wait for you to
catch up.
On 2/28/11, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jeanette, this is exactly the type of situation I am trying to avoid
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeanette Fortin
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:02 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List I want to maintain my independence.
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
> Jessica, I was married to a sighted man for 20 years, in thos eyears i did
> ot carry my cane, i didn't really go much of anywhere on my own and I
still
> do nt go much of anywhere on my own, I usually have achild with me. But
> since I started with NFB a year ago i drug out my old cane from high
school
>
> and carry it with me, my friends have a mixed response, some of them
> haven'really said anything, others are concerned i don't trust them and
> others don't see the need.
> Although I have some vision I find that having the cane withme makes me
feel
>
> safer and makes me wish I had sued it through the years, my skills are
rusty
>
> and when I went to the national convention last year I used it a lot
> wondering around the big hotel in Dallas.
> I personally think after having been married to a sighted person who felt
> no need for my cane, that i wished i had used it, i lost a lot of my
> independance and confidence in my ability to get around alone.
> Previous to marrying i had lived and worked in Dallas and went everywhere
on
>
> my own and I am looking forward to developing that confidence and
> independance again. Jeanette
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
>> Hi Jessica,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it
often
>> makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted
guide
>> in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
>> However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
>> member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
>> while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
>> issues
>> with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
>>
>> The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much
>> on
>> your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
>> believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
>>
>> Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
>> directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
>> like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
>> your
>> assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
>> the
>> more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
>> boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard,
so
>> long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
>> needs.
>>
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Brian Miller
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Michelle Medina
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>> I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to
used
>> my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the
time,
>
>> I
>> tried to just walk near her.
>>
>> On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Jessica,
>>> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
>>> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
>>> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
>>> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
>>> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
>>> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
>>> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
>>> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
>>> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
>>> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
>>> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use
my
>> cane too!
>>>
>>> fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
>>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello List,
>>>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>>>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>>>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>>>
>>>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>>>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>>>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>>>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>>>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>>>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>>>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>>>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>>>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>>>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>>>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>>>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>>>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>>>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>>>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>>>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>>>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>>>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>>>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>>>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>>>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>>>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>>>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>>>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>>>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>>>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>>>> can do things
>>>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>>>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>>>
>>>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>>>> Jessica
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>
>>>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>>>> http://lite.facebook.com
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
>> well.
>>>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>>>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>>>> not. Not sure what's up!
>>>> Bonnie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>>>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>
>>>> ---- Original Message ------
>>>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>>>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>>>
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>>>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>>>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>>>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>>>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>>>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>>>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>>>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>>>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>>>
>>>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>>>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Michelle Abadia
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>>>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>>>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget to check out:
>>>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>>>
>>>> _______
>>>>
>>>> PMList mailing list
>>>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>>>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>>>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>>>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>>>> e%40gma
>>>> il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>>>> 05%40ch
>>>> arter.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>>>> stiw%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>>>> verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
>> trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
>> not
>> my home.
>> San Antonio:
>> I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
>> iowa.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-
> home.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%40gmai
l.com
>
--
I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that
is not my home.
San Antonio:
I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 00:29:16 -0800
From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinUSbCwR0UYgHujm_P75WcEs3cU6yRmq0EZsfpA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
I have been watching the development of this post, and I must say that
I've been very interested in what people have to say. I think it's
because this is something we all struggle with for one thing, and
another reason is that Cane Travel is a career I am quite interested
in.
Gary Articulated how huge it is to maintain those cane skills we've
gained. It's also been said, by him, and many others that taking up
human guide isn't a bad thing either. It's like learning when to use
open palm or pencil grip techniques, it's really situational, and you
will know when it's best to use one or another.
I remember something Barbra Pierce once said to a group of youth I
was working with one summer, and it kind of went like this" Using
human guide is not a bad thing, but using it doesn't mean you should
"tune out" either. I really think that the true sign of
independence is not a test of how much you can do by yourself all of
the time, but how comfortable you are with the idea that not
everything needs to be done with absolutely no assistance ever.
I grab a hold of a friends arm, not because I need to, but that I
want to. I use my cane because I comfortable with it, and will
advise others to do so. Our training in our training centers, is a
foundation, and there are variations on how we use that training.
Maybe when I was younger, I wasn't too keen on the idea on being
identified as being blind, but once I met blind folks, and saw how
the long white cane was used, I grew into liking it. I use my
cane, and not always do I bump into things with my cane or contact an
opject with it. I find that the sound cues give me the
information I need to navigate and a level and pace that I like. Dog
Guides are good travel tools (I think we understand what I mean and
don't mean by the term "tool"), and there is a change in the
amount of tactual inter action you have with the world around you
with a dog and a cane.
I think Both are respectable tools to use.
resigual vision or not, I like the confidence that comes with
using a cane, and I think that it becomes the independent traveler's
foundation, from this, intelligent and healthy choices on Travel
tools can be utilized.
I hope I did a good job of address the base questions of both Mary
and Jessica.
and I personally want to thank everyone for their thoughtful
responces, i've learnedquite a bit from you all.
Best,
Darian
On 2/28/11, Michelle Medina <michellem86 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jessica,
> I completely don't mean to sound harsh, but as to the first issue you
> raised, he'll just have to put up with the dirty looks. As I said, I
> completely don't mean to sound harsh, but if you can handle it and he
> can handle it, then it doesn't matter what looks he's getting. I have
> plenty of experience with this for a different reason. I was born with
> a very rare birthdefect called a Tessier Cleft and have had 66
> reconstructive surgeries to close my face and build up bone structure.
> People stare all the time, it just comes with the territory, so the
> only two options are to deal with it or never go out in public. In
> your case, the option would be to use your cane anyway or not use it
> and lose your independence.
> As to the second question, that's why it is important to use the cane
> no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. I even use it in
> crowds along with some sighted guide assistance as needed.
> When we went to marte gra last Febuary when I was in la, there wasn't
> a ton of sighted guide going on. There was some, but not alot. It was
> mostly up to us to keep up with our groups and if you weren't there
> when the group hit the next corner, they'd stop and wait for you to
> catch up.
>
> On 2/28/11, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jeanette, this is exactly the type of situation I am trying to avoid
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jeanette Fortin
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:02 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List I want to maintain my independence.
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>> Jessica, I was married to a sighted man for 20 years, in thos eyears i
did
>> ot carry my cane, i didn't really go much of anywhere on my own and I
>> still
>> do nt go much of anywhere on my own, I usually have achild with me. But
>> since I started with NFB a year ago i drug out my old cane from high
>> school
>>
>> and carry it with me, my friends have a mixed response, some of them
>> haven'really said anything, others are concerned i don't trust them and
>> others don't see the need.
>> Although I have some vision I find that having the cane withme makes me
>> feel
>>
>> safer and makes me wish I had sued it through the years, my skills are
>> rusty
>>
>> and when I went to the national convention last year I used it a lot
>> wondering around the big hotel in Dallas.
>> I personally think after having been married to a sighted person who
felt
>> no need for my cane, that i wished i had used it, i lost a lot of my
>> independance and confidence in my ability to get around alone.
>> Previous to marrying i had lived and worked in Dallas and went everywhere
>> on
>>
>> my own and I am looking forward to developing that confidence and
>> independance again. Jeanette
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Jessica,
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it
>>> often
>>> makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted
>>> guide
>>> in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk
together.
>>> However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
>>> member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
>>> while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper
>>> issues
>>> with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
>>>
>>> The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as
much
>>> on
>>> your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
>>> believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
>>>
>>> Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
>>> directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to
feel
>>> like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's
>>> your
>>> assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and
>>> the
>>> more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
>>> boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard,
>>> so
>>> long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your
>>> needs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> Brian Miller
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of Michelle Medina
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>>
>>> I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to
>>> used
>>> my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the
>>> time,
>>
>>> I
>>> tried to just walk near her.
>>>
>>> On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Jessica,
>>>> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
>>>> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
>>>> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
>>>> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
>>>> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
>>>> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
>>>> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
>>>> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after
that.
>>>> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
>>>> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
>>>> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use
>>>> my
>>> cane too!
>>>>
>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
>>>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello List,
>>>>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>>>>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>>>>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>>>>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>>>>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>>>>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>>>>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>>>>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>>>>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>>>>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>>>>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>>>>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>>>>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>>>>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>>>>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>>>>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>>>>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>>>>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>>>>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>>>>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>>>>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>>>>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>>>>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>>>>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>>>>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>>>>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>>>>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>>>>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>>>>> can do things
>>>>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>>>>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>>>>> Jessica
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>>>>> http://lite.facebook.com
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
>>> well.
>>>>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>>>>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>>>>> not. Not sure what's up!
>>>>> Bonnie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>>>>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Original Message ------
>>>>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>>>>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>>>>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>>>>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>>>>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>>>>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>>>>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>>>>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>>>>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>>>>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>>>>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle Abadia
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>>>>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>>>>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget to check out:
>>>>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>>>>
>>>>> _______
>>>>>
>>>>> PMList mailing list
>>>>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>>>>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>>>>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>>>>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>>>>> e%40gma
>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>>>>> 05%40ch
>>>>> arter.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>>>>> stiw%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> blindtlk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>>>>> verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> blindtlk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
>>> trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is
>>> not
>>> my home.
>>> San Antonio:
>>> I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
>>> iowa.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jeanette%40fortin-
>> home.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%40gmai
l.com
>>
>
>
> --
> I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
> trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that
> is not my home.
> San Antonio:
> I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.
com
>
--
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/goldengateace
"The purpose of life is a life of purpose.
? Robert Byrne
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 05:27:29 -0600
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Question re: Jaws and MS 2010
Message-ID: <auto-000002846361 at mailfront4.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Windows 7 and Microsoft Office 2010 are both good products, and quite
accessible. However, best results will be achieved by using JAWS
version 12, not 11. More work has been done to make those products
accessible with JAWS 12.
Dave
>Hi guys,
>
>Does anyone have any experience with Jaws 11 and Microsoft 2010
>and/or windows 7? I have found these for very reasonable prices in
>my "student store ," but I don't want to get ahead of myself and
>purchase them if they are going to be problematic.
>
>/Any Info. Appreciated.
>Thanks
>Diane Graves
>Civil Rights Specialist
>Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>317-232-2647
>
>"It is service that measures success."
>George Washington Carver
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:03:58 -0500
From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Message-ID: <876F0EFE46304447986C0A9ADB8F4E15 at cindy2e65cf610>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I do think it's important for you to keep up your cane skills. I'm not
exactly sure what the best way to do that would be, given your situation.
Absolutely no public transportation would be a terrible thing, and,
fortunately, I've never lived in a place where I had to experience that. Is
it possible for you to walk around your neighborhood or, are there any
stores in the area to which you could walk?
Another thought is, when you need to go shopping, maybe you could ask John,
or someone else to take you and meet you at a designated place, later.
Then, they could leave you to do your shopping and you could maintain your
cane skills.
I wish you luck with finding a workable solution to this issue.
Cindy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Hello List,
I appreciate the amount of discussion and feedback that this topic
has generated. This is why I am a member of the NFB! When we all have
those every day quandaries, it is easy to get a number of opinions, ideas,
and suggestions.
I haven't finished reading through all the messages yet, but I think I
should clarify some. Jon doesn't care that I bring my cane, he even
encourages it. Our issue is that when we are walking I worry that if I am
always taking his elbow than I am not practicing cane travel. At centers
like Louisiana, Minnesota, and Colorado you are around other blind people
24/7. In the real world, however, the majority of time is spent with
sighted people. If you constently say "Oh, I'll just take your arm" than
aren't you eventually going to lose the structure discovery that you learned
at the center? Won't confidence weign? How do you strike a balance?
Jessica
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Brian Miller
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:28 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
Hi Jessica,
Thank you for sharing what I'm sure is a common dilemma. I think it often
makes more sense to take your sighted partner's elbow and go sighted guide
in crowded public spaces, plus it's sometimes just nice to walk together.
However, I always use my cane in addition to taking a friend or family
member's elbow. It's when they say, "Hey, can't you put that cane away
while I'm guiding you?" that you have a problem. This signals deeper issues
with blindness and social stigma that needs to be address.
The key is making sure you always have your cane with you, and do as much on
your own as you can to maintain skills, confidence, and independence. I
believe one does lose fluency with the cane the less you use it.
Just as your boyfirend doesn't want to feel like he's simply barking
directions at a dog, and feeling like a jerk, you also don't want to feel
like an appendage of your boyfriend, or for him to feel as though he's your
assistant, not your boyfirend. These are tricky things to navigate, and the
more openly you can discuss it, the better. Its' actually good that your
boyfirend is being so frank with you about how he feels in this regard, so
long as he's sharing his concerns sincerely and with openness to your needs.
Good luck,
Brian Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Michelle Medina
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 5:34 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
I just returned from San Antonio TX, and was with my friend, but I to used
my cane often, even in crowds, especially in crowds, and alot of the time, I
tried to just walk near her.
On 2/27/11, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Jessica,
> when I was dating my ex-wife who is sighted, she would always
> encourage me to put my cane away when we were together and just hold
> her hand. One day we were walking through the mall and she turned to
> look at something. Just as she did, she ran me into one of those metal
> signs a business had parked in the walkway. It fell to the ground with
> a crash that was probably heard from one end of the mall to the other.
> "That's why I use my cane!" I told her as I took it out of my pocket
> and unfolded it. She never complained about me using my cane after that.
> I would still hold her hand and she would give me direction
> through our hand-holding but I used my cane in conjunction with her
> sighted guide. Still today, whenever I use sighted guide, I always use my
cane too!
>
> fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "'Pamela Allen'"
> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 4:41 PM
> Subject: [Blindtlk] To Cane or Not To Cane?
>
>
>> Hello List,
>> This is Jessica Kostiw. I have been on this list for quite a while,
>> but do not post very often. I am hoping to get some good advice on
>> an issue that I am sure we have all faced.
>>
>> I am a Louisiana Center for the Blind graduate, and well appreciate
>> the important of the travel skills I acquired there.
>> If you are like me though, the significant majority of your time is
>> spent with other sighted people. My longtime boyfriend Jon is
>> sighted. He has actually purchased a cane from the NFB and wants to
>> go under sleep shades to see what it is like. The thing is on the
>> one hand he is very supportive, but more and more when we are
>> together in a store or something would very much rather that I just
>> take his hand. He says it's quicker and makes more sense, but I want
>> to be able to be independent. I don't see why he can't just walk by
>> me and give me directions or something. When we do that though, he
>> says he feels like he is just calling a dog. He may as well ring a
>> cowbell. He can't keep up chatter all the time and becomes harder
>> for me to follow. People give dirty looks like "why isn't that guy
>> helping that blind lady?" Part of me understands what he is saying,
>> I have heard the same arguments from my mom. My sister is so
>> impatient and always just insists that I take her elbow. I live in
>> Virginia. There is no public transportation where I live, and I am
>> concerned that always being around sighted people with this attitude
>> will eventually cause me to lose my skills. This Email is focusing
>> on the situation with Jon only because I am concerned about our
>> future. We are definitely working towards marriage and children and
>> all that and I don't want to feel like I am completely dependent on
>> my husband and can't equally contribute when we take any future
>> children out in public. We have already agreed that we will live in
>> an area with good public transportation so I won't feel dependent and
>> can do things
>> on my own, but again what about when we are together? Do I have to
>> sacrifice my independence to make it easier on him?
>>
>> Any incite would be greatly appreciated!!
>> Jessica
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Judd
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 2:31 AM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>> I tried accessing the facebook lite site, and it worked.
>> http://lite.facebook.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 12:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>>
>> Not sure what has happened but we discovered the same thing today as
well.
>> Perhaps it is something that will be fixed soon. My daughter and I
>> tried everything to get it to let us click on things but it would
>> not. Not sure what's up!
>> Bonnie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of humberto
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:35 PM
>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: blindTlk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] [PM] Facebook with jaws
>>
>> ---- Original Message ------
>> From: Michelle Abadia <michelle.abadia at verizon.net
>> Subject: [PM] Facebook with jaws
>> Date sent: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:40:45 -0500
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I apologize for the unrelated topic.
>> I've been using Facebook successfully on my windows 7 laptop, using
>> (www.m.facebook.com), which I think our litt moderator suggested
>> because (www.facebook.com) wasn't very accessible with jaws.
>> This morning, I come to find that now, m.facebook.com isn't
>> accessible either! Everything is preceeded by "same page link", and
>> when I click on something or try to write a message, the system won't
>> let me. This happened overnight, because I was able to work on
>> Facebook just 24 hours ago.
>>
>> Could someone please give me some assistance with this off list at
>> Michelle.abadia at verizon.net ?
>>
>> Thanks so much in advance.
>>
>> Michelle Abadia
>> ________________________________________
>> The Frequently Asked Question page is at:
>> http://www.pacmategear.com/FAQ/
>> Please feel free to add your suggestions for an FAQ!
>>
>> Don't forget to check out:
>> http://www.pacmategear.com !
>>
>> _______
>>
>> PMList mailing list
>> PMList at pacmategear.com
>> http://pacmategear.com/mailman/listinfo/pmlist_pacmategear.com
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to:
>> PMList-unsubscribe at pacmategear.com
>> and don't forget to reply to the confirmation email!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/lucas.bonni
>> e%40gma
>> il.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/chrischas08
>> 05%40ch
>> arter.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.ko
>> stiw%40
>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/blind411%40
>> verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/michellem86%
> 40gmail.com
>
--
I'm trying to understand the choices you made as a young man, Dad. I'm
trying and failing and in agony because I must go back to a home that is not
my home.
San Antonio:
I love you and I miss you already and I haven't even left yet.
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/brian-r-miller%40u
iowa.edu
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40
gmail.com
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/cindy425%40verizon
.net
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
***************************************
More information about the BlindTlk
mailing list