[Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?

Fri Mar 4 21:32:15 UTC 2011

We're all closed-minded now because we don't want our intelligence insulted.
Thank God for free enterprise and freedom to contract!  We can choose which
professionals to hire.
Mary

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:24 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?

Okay, if the bathing question is asked of all the clients, then maybe it 
would be appropriate.  I seriously doubt this is the case.  The underlying 
assumption is though, that blindness prevents one from bathing 
independently.  If a medical practitioner did need that information for 
actual medical purposes, not just personal curiosity, then I strongly 
believe there is a much more polite and diplomatic way of asking.

I don't think very many of us on this list go around calling people that say

odd things stupid.  However this list is a place where we can talk honestly 
about how it is to be blind on a practical day to day basis.  Somedays it 
sucks.  It's nice to be able to talk to others that understand.  Likewise I 
am a parent and somedays being a parent is hard.  It's nice to have other 
parents to talk to who understand about those issues.

JMHO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <dstrick1 at roadrunner.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?

> As I read this thread I cannot help but wonder who is in the wrong here. 
> As a future medical practitioner and being blind myself, I see the 
> validity in a question such as who bathes you. What you closed minded 
> people do not realize is how much information this provides to a 
> practitioner. It says a lot about your physical abilities because one 
> thing you all seem to be forgetting is that there are a lot of other 
> disabilities out there that prevent someone from bathing themselves. 
> Furthermore to call someone stupid or an idiot only goes to show your own 
> level of ignorance.
>
> Respectfully,
> Derrick
> ---- Gloria Whipple <ladygloria at webband.com> wrote:
>> I agree with you both whole hardily.
>>
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>> Corresponding Secretary
>> Inland Empire chapter
>> nfb of WA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mary Mc Gee
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:59 AM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?
>>
>> Hi Again;
>> Diane is right.  There is a limit to education.  That's why
>> sometimes the silly response is the best.  It makes light of the thing, 
>> but
>> it also clearly makes the point of how stupid the question was in the 
>> first
>> place.
>> We're not obligated to educate--I always rationalize that I wasn't
>> sent here to save the world and, if I wanted to spend my life educating, 
>> I'd
>> have been a teacher by profession.
>> There's a place for education and a place for advocacy.  I
>> specialize in the advocacy part and, if, for example I run into something
>> that's pure bigotry, I remind the culprit that there are laws against 
>> that.
>>
>> Whoever said some sighted people expect us to be docile is accurate.
>> Some do.  They expect us to quietly accept their charity and be grateful.
>> That's not the way it works.  I was taught to be second-class at a school
>> for the blind, yet, I was taught I was more fortunate that those who are
>> totally blind.  Not anymore!  We're all first-class and we must never let
>> the sighted world forget it!
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Graves, Diane
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:46 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I think these are some excellent points. I think that everything has its
>> place, including education of the sighted public, and I don't mean to 
>> imply
>> that we should just throw that out the window. But come on, guys, this is
>> the 21st century.  Think about it. If people were making these 
>> disparaging
>> comments and asking these condescending questions on the basis of our 
>> races,
>> our national origins, our genders, our religious affiliations, we 
>> wouldn't
>> be required to educate! It would simply be unacceptable. And... for a 
>> doctor
>> to get through medical school with that level of stupidity is simply
>> inexcusable.
>>
>> I mean, education is all well and good, and people who have always had 
>> sight
>> and then suddenly have to learn to live without it, most definitely need
>> education. But when does the obligation to educate give way to the right 
>> to
>> be respected?
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "It is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:09 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?
>>
>> Yeah, Dr. Maurer would just love this one.
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2011, at 12:54 PM, David Evans wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Ray,
>> >
>> > How about a banquet speech instead.
>> >
>> > David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:44 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Who Bathes You?
>> >
>> >
>> >> Somehow, I see a monitor article coming out of this.  Thoughts Gary? 
>> >> Or,
>> am I being presumptuous?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> >>
>> >> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> >> Skype name:
>> >> barefootedray
>> >>
>> >> Facebook:
>> >> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 4, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Bernadetta Pracon wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Everyone:
>> >>> While I agree with the opinion that we  should probably refrain from
>> using inflammatory phrases or words based on the fact that this list is
>> publicly archived, I see another side to this argument. Sure, most people
>> who don't normally encounter those of us who are   blind or visually
>> impaired are not going to know very much about how we live day to day. 
>> They
>> will most likely have some   preconceived assumptions about us. But just
>> because they do not know much about blindness does not mean we have to
>> acquiesse to their ignorance. Of course, we can't verbally beat them up 
>> for
>> assuming things about us, and we should educate where necessary, but we 
>> are
>> allowed to have our rants now and then. Especially when the comments and
>> assumptions made about us are overly ignorant and in a way, almost
>> insulting. In many cases, these people are well meaning, and they are not
>> conscious that their assumptions are rediculous to us, and with a little 
>> bit
>> of education they get on the right tra
>>  ck.
>> >>> However, a comment such as "who bathes you", said from one grown man 
>> >>> to
>> another, not to mention a doctor, is sort of inexcusable. It's the kind 
>> of
>> question a child would ask, because they really didn't know any better.
>> Someone educated to be a doctor should most certainly know better.
>> Therefore, I think we can allow ourselves a little leeway regarding
>> etiquette under the circumstance.
>> >>> And look at it this way: If a sighted person does see a message on 
>> >>> this
>> topic with the word "idiot" in it, they might just wake up to the fact 
>> that
>> blind people aren't angels who won't flinch under the weight of insult 
>> and
>> ignorance. I say this not to be a radical snob, but because I realize 
>> that
>> sometimes, sighted people expect us to be docile, well-behaved people due

>> to
>> our disibility, and it's not welcome or expected of us to express  our
>> feelings of shock and  ridicule. If they see a little rant now and then 
>> as a
>> response to something ignorant that was said, it might just make us 
>> appear a
>> little more human. Of course, it's a given to us that we are every bit as
>> human as our sighted counterparts, but our response to this sort of thing
>> might just make that point come across a little more clearly.
>> >>> Now, I am not at all suggesting we throw away all inhibitions and 
>> >>> start
>> writing posts that are dirogatory. We shouldn't go around calling people
>> names such as idiot and the like. That's not right, and it doesn't
>> accomplish anything. That being said, I have to admit against my better
>> judgement, that sometimes, they just plain ask for it.
>> >>>
>> >>> On a lighter note:
>> >>> I think that Marion's response to the doctor was witty and clever.
>> Definitely better than if he had called him an idiot. lol
>> >>>
>> >>> Just my two cents guys. Sorry for the somewhat lengthy post.
>> >>>
>> >>> All Best,
>> >>> Bernadetta
>> >>>
>> >>> -- 
>> >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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