[Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes

Wed May 11 13:53:00 UTC 2011

Dear Dianna,

I totally agree.  Who are we to judge until we have walked in someone else's 
shoes and carried someone else's burden.

David Evans, NFBF and GD Jack.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes

> Hi Dave,
>
> I completely understand how it works all the ins and outs that they really 
> do vary from place to place. Blindness is my only disability of note, and 
> I am eligible in this county.
>
> My only point was that, if someone has been certified and is using 
> paratransit
> , no matter what the reason, who are we to judge them?
>
> Diane Graves
> , and while somone else is using fixed route, who are we to judge.
> Civil Rights Specialist
> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
> 317-232-2647
>
> "It is service that measures success."
> George Washington Carver
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of David Evans
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:07 AM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>
>
> Dear Dianne,
>
> There is very little choice in the use of Para-transit.
> This is because you must go through an eligibility process, fill out and
> application and maybe even face a functional assessment to be allowed to 
> use
> Para-transit service.  Being Blind is not a reason just by itself.  You 
> must
> have other disabilities, in addition to Blindness, in order to use
> Para-transit.
> Some of these "conditions" could be, but not limited to, the inability to
> navigate the system, fixed route that is
> Other medical or physical conditions that limit one's ability to walk or
> stand for at least 30 minutes, heart conditions, high or low blood 
> pressure
> issues, dizziness, fainting spells, disorientation, vertigo, seizures, sun
> light sensitivity and the list goes on and on.
> Just being Blind will not get you on the van instead of the fixed route 
> bus.
> No one needs to qualify to ride the fixed route bus.
> The fare for riding on Para-transit is usually double what the fixed route
> fare is, even thou the ride times can be the same.
> You have less flexibility with the Para-transit as you are locked into a
> pick up window and can not change on the same day.  Fixed route lets you 
> be
> able to change your mind or plans so you can leave earlier or stay later 
> or
> add other trips on the spur of the moment.  You can not do this with
> Para-transit.
> With Para-transit, you need to be prepared in case your ride does not show
> up on time or something happens to the vehicle before it gets there to 
> pick
> you up.  If they take you somewhere, they do have the obligation to come
> back and take you home again.
> I tell all my Para-transit consumers, to carry a cell phone with the
> Para-transit phone number programmed into the phone and call if you are at
> the end of your 30 minute window and ask where your vehicle is.  Always 
> plan
> your trip in case you need to wait somewhere for the late vehicle.  Don't
> wait outside if you can help it and always be aware of the weather and the
> area you may have to wait in.  Pick some place that is safe, lighted and
> near other people if you can.
> The inability to cross major busy streets and highways may or may not be a
> good enough reason to get you onto Para-transit.  I know that this a 
> common
> fear that many Blind people have, but fear of crossing busy streets is not 
> ,
> by itself a qualifier to get on the van.  This is an issue that can be
> addressed with travel training and by asking that there be traffic control
> lights at the intersections you must use to cross at.
> If there are no lights or sidewalks, then you have a reason to use the
> Para-transit over the fixed route bus.
> It is illegal to walk along a state or federal highway or right of way or
> upon any freeway.  This can get you Para-transit service too.
> No one should have to risk their life in an unreasonable manner to get 
> where
> they need to go
>
> Weather can be a great factor on some people's ability to travel safely.
> Too hot, too wet or too cold effects everyone, but some people more than
> most.
> Someone who has poor balance or mobility is at a real disadvantage in 
> these
> conditions.  People in wheelchairs have they own problems too.  They do 
> not
> recommend that you get your $15,000 dollar electric wheelchair soaking wet
> in the rain or try to drive it through the mud or standing water.
> Para-transit is there for a reason, some people need it and it is just
> another way for some people to get where they need to go and retain their
> indepenance and quality of life.
>
> David Evans NFBF and GD Jack
> MV Transit Consumer Advocate
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graves, Diane" <dgraves at icrc.IN.gov>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 1:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>
>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> You know, I have been thinking about this paratransit v. fixed route
>> discussion, and a question has occurred to me.  Why is it a requirement
>> that the blind are any different from the sighted? I'll explain.
>>
>> Of course, as federationists, we believe--we know-- that the blind are
>> just as capable as the sighted and should strive to be productive,
>> independent citizens. This is a very good and necessary thing. But should
>> our methods of doing so be dictated?
>>
>> As I said last week, I know some sighted people who would stay home from
>> work and other family activities while their car was in the shop, rather
>> than get on a city "fixed route" bus. This is true.  I do know these
>> people. However, I also know some sighted people who are perfectly 
>> capable
>> of driving, some of whom actually own cars, who choose not to drive. They
>> don't want to drive, so they make the choice to suffer all of the
>> inconveniences and in climate weather that the fixed route has to offer.
>> To me, this is absolutely 100% ludicrous! I cannot imagine having the
>> physical, mental, and financial ability to drive, and choosing not to do
>> so. That makes no sense at all to me. But some sighted people make that
>> choice. So why should we as blind people be any different?
>>
>> I remember years ago there was a debate about the topic of dog v. cane, 
>> in
>> so much that, I believe, there was an entire issue of the Monitor
>> dedicated to the topic. I think this boils down to pretty much the same
>> thing.
>>
>> If I choose to use a dog and you choose to use a cane, does that make you
>> more competent or independent than I or vice versa? By the same token, if
>> you choose to ride paratransit and I choose to ride fixed route, yet we
>> are both going to work, to church, to NFB meetings, or any number of 
>> other
>> community activities, who is to say that one of us is more independent
>> than the other? Do you know what I mean? We all make choices in our lives
>> depending on our own needs, wants and comfort levels whether we are blind
>> or sighted, and if someone can and would rather use paratransit should
>> they not have the right to make that choice? Is it really any different
>> than accepting a ride from a friend who offers you one? Why is it any
>> different from paying a driver? You aren't riding paratransit for free,
>> and you aren't the one who set the rates.
>>
>> As I said, though I do use paratransit from time to time, I'm not a major
>> fan of the paratransit in my area myself, so please don't misunderstand.
>> But if this is what a fellow blind person chooses to do, who are we to 
>> say
>> he's wrong? I don't know, am I off base here? Tell me what  you all 
>> think.
>>
>>
>> Diane Graves
>> Civil Rights Specialist
>> Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>> Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>> 317-232-2647
>>
>> "It is service that measures success."
>> George Washington Carver
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain confidential
>> and/or legally privileged information intended only for the individual or
>> entity(ies)
>> named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient, be
>> advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, or 
>> acting
>> in reliance
>> upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>> received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender to
>> arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>> Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of David Evans
>> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 12:26 PM
>> To: davidb521 at gmail.com; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> Para-transit is there mostly for those who can not  or sometimes can not
>> use
>> the fixed route bus system for all of their trips.
>> Your use of Para-transit can be based upon your physical condition and
>> disability or even barriers in the environment that prevent you from 
>> being
>> able to  access and use the fixed route bus.
>> I say, that you should use the fixed route service first , if you can, 
>> but
>> if you can not, take the Para-transit.
>> Under the ADA, the Para-transit service can serve no less than 3/4 miles,
>> either side of a fixed bus route, as a crow flies, nor more than 1.5 
>> miles
>> either side, with the support of the local government.
>> Most everywhere it is held to the 3/4 mile rule, but the local government
>> can exceed this if they want to.
>> Here in Palm Beach County Florida, we have a ADA "core area" that is
>> bonded
>> on the east by the ocean, on the west by the Florida Turnpike, on the
>> North
>> by RCA blvd and on the south by the Palm Beach/Broward County line.
>> There are several fixed bus routes that stick out of the west side and in
>> these areas we follow the 3/4 mile rule around the bus routes.
>> We have a core area to prevent making "islands" of isolation with in 
>> areas
>> that are mostly or surrounded by fixed route services.  This is caused
>> mostly by "walled communities" where the fixed route bus is fenced out 
>> and
>> the riders are fenced in with poor access to the fixed bus system.  We
>> have
>> lots of these in my county and this makes using the fixed route system
>> very
>> hard for many people, even the non-disabled.
>> Only the disable can access the Para-transit in this case.
>> IF there are barriers in the environment that you can not get around, 
>> such
>> as a major highway, a river or the lack of safe pathways for you to 
>> follow
>> to get there, you may be a person who needs to use the Para-transit for
>> most
>> or all of your trips.
>> If you have a physical or medical condition that makes it very hard or
>> impossible to use the fixed route system then you might use the
>> Para-transit
>> service instead.
>> You must go through a application process to get Para-transit service and
>> then that service can have conditions placed upon it depending on your
>> physical or medical conditions, your ability to access and navigate the
>> fixed route system and its availability in the areas you want to go to.
>> Conditions such as severe diabetic neuropathy, poor balance or the
>> inability
>> to walk or stand for more than 30 minutes,  Certain medications that make
>> you vulnerable to sun or heat stroke, have  seizures or you have bad
>> arthritis or a heart condition.
>>  There is also the busy streets you can not get across to access the bus
>> both ways.
>> We are very lucky here in Palm Beach County in that our County
>> Commissioners
>> have funded our service very well, but there is still lots of room for
>> improvement.  We also have a State of Florida program that serves 
>> Seniors,
>> the Disabled, Children at Risk and even the able bodied poor who do not
>> have
>> a car or who can not drive.  It is called the Transportation 
>> Disadvantaged
>> Program and the funding comes from a $1.50 auto tag fee and goes to all 
>> 67
>> counties in the state.  In most areas, there are only about 13 places in
>> the
>> state where there is ADA service because there is a fixed bus route
>> system.
>> The TD program is the transit service of last resort.
>>
>> If you want to know more, please write me back and be specific and I will
>> try to answer
>> I am able to use the Para-transit as I have medical conditions that can
>> make
>> it hard or even dangerous for me to have to use the fixed route system by
>> itself.  I do use the fixed route service as much as I can and even teach
>> others how to use it, the Para-transit and the Tri-Rail system too as a
>> travel instructor.  I sometimes push myself and use it even when it can 
>> be
>> dangerous for me because I think it is important for others.
>> I never ask anyone to do anything that I will not do myself.
>>
>> David Evans, and GD Jack
>> MV Transit  Consumer Advocate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David" <davidb521 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 1:17 PM
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Paratransit Vs. fixed Routes
>>
>>
>>> Hello. I was reading the thread discussing the pros and cons of blind
>>> driving, and noticed some discussion regarding paratransit versus fixed
>>> routes. What I am wondering is this. Does paratransit in most cities
>>> closely
>>> follow fixed routes within a certain radius as I assume it does in Palm
>>> Beach County? From what I read from the list, paratransit is neither
>>> superior or inferior to fixed routes, hence it's name. Therefore, if
>>> blindness is your only disability, and your travel skills enable you to
>>> travel anywhere you please with confidence, as is the case with me, what
>>> are
>>> the advantages of paratransit, if any? I am interested in hearing your
>>> thoughts on this.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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