[Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about apple
David Andrews
dandrews at visi.com
Thu Sep 8 01:45:12 UTC 2011
Joseph:
You can say all the good things you want about Apple, and there are
good things to say -- but I work for a Rehab agency, and we simply
couldn't place blind people using Voiceover in most of the jobs that
are found for blind persons. We do place some Macs, particularly in
music, but for most jobs, most blind persons are doing, they just
aren't appropriate.
Dave
p.s. And just so you don't think I am just an Apple basher, my whole
staff, including me, are going to two days of Voiceover training next week.
At 04:20 PM 9/6/2011, you wrote:
>Usually I'm more critical of Apple. The control freak nature of the
>company has really ramped up since 2007 with the introduction of the
>iPhone. Their products are still superior IMO, and IMO they are
>simply THE leader in accessibility in the mainstream market, so I
>have good reason to stay with Apple and their products, but the
>draconian business practices could cause that to change if they continue.
>
>However on this issue, the NFB is squarely wrong. We are wrong for
>failing to recognize the simple truth that Apple's accessibility is
>on par with anything else you'd pay for elsewhere. We're wrong for
>ignoring that Apple gives away what anyone else charges hundreds and
>thousands of dollars for. We are wrong for failing to recognize
>that Apple cannot wave a magic wand and make the rest of the world
>be filled with magical accessibility unicorns. And we are wrong for
>trying to make an enemy of a company that has proven to be one of
>our biggest friends in the technology world.
>
>Apple's not perfect, but when it comes to accessibility, what
>they've got isn't shabby at all. In fact, was amazing just a couple
>of short years ago. The NFB seems to have a fierce loyalty to the
>likes of Freedom Scientific despite some very questionable business
>practices of that company (including trying to do away with their
>competition who is offering the same service at a lower price!)
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 05:35:52AM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
>>So of whom are you more critical; Apple or the NFB?
>>
>>Kind of hard to know jus how to folow that one.
>>
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>Skype name:
>>barefootedray
>>
>>Facebook:
>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sep 6, 2011, at 4:39 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>>
>>>Dave,
>>>
>>>I don't think it's unreasonable to be a bit miffed under the
>>>circumstances. So far the NFB is 1 for 3 when it comes to
>>>recognizing the effort they've put into creating accessibility
>>>(and inventing new technology to do it pretty much from
>>>scratch). And the only reason the NFB is even 1 for 3 is because
>>>the misrepresentation of the capabilities and functions of
>>>VoiceOver were so profound that EVERYBODY who'd ever actually used
>>>it screamed foul.
>>>
>>>The NFB's track record with Apple is pretty poor, so from their
>>>perspective it's got to look like we're shooting our mouths off
>>>once again, without the faintest clue what we're talking
>>>about. We've certainly done so in the past.
>>>
>>>Which, in point of fact, WE ARE.
>>>
>>>If Apple starts telling me that I cannot have a certain kind of
>>>program, I'm going to tell them to stick it and go write for
>>>Android. It's happened before. Actually, it's happened rather a
>>>lot. The entire world is clamoring for Apple to cut that crap
>>>out. And while their customers who give them money are demanding
>>>they stop placing restrictions on apps, the NFB is arguing the
>>>opposite. And trying to condemn them for not doing so without being told.
>>>
>>>You can mince words all you like, but the fact is that the NFB
>>>screwed the pooch bigtime with these two resolutions. We made
>>>enemies of people who should be our friends. We've belittled the
>>>people who made the touch screen accessible once too often, and
>>>they are sick of it. We've badmouthed the people who made
>>>accessibility free, rather than more than the cost of the computer
>>>you're running it on once too often, and they resent it. We've
>>>made it clear that we are not willing to work WITH them, only to
>>>dictate terms TO them, and they think we can take a hike.
>>>
>>>Apple accessibility does not NEED the NFB. They're doing a damned
>>>fine job without us, while we have done little but baselessly
>>>snipe at them from the sidelines. They plan to continue to
>>>improve the state of the art, including the state of the art for
>>>accessibility. If Peter is a fair example of a Federationist, the
>>>NFB has no desire to actually help them do it. On the contrary,
>>>we want to cost them developers, customers, revenue, and all based
>>>on a pie-in-the-sky notion that there should never be any software
>>>we can't use.
>>>
>>>And dammit, if Adobe can't make Photoshop accessible, then they
>>>should be FORBIDDEN from releasing the program on Apple devices!
>>>
>>>I think someone estimated that 75% of Macs have Photoshop
>>>installed, by the way.
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>
>>>On Mon, Sep 05, 2011 at 02:30:38PM -0500, David Andrews wrote:
>>>>Joseph, I think things should have, and could have been handled
>>>>differently, and better, but on the other side, Apple needs to
>>>>get a thicker skin. The more successful they are, the more they
>>>>will be criticized and questioned. They can't have it both
>>>>ways. They can't make all the decisions and not expect any push back.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>At 10:47 AM 9/5/2011, you wrote:
>>>>>I know several Apple employees personally. I cannot really say
>>>>>more, because Apple is a company full of secrets. ANY
>>>>>communication that does not happen through official channels is
>>>>>subject to employees losing their jobs. (Add that to the list
>>>>>of Apple as big brother.) There's no chance that we're going to
>>>>>lose the accessibility in Apple products, but the hostile
>>>>>relationship Peter Donahue and others want the NFB to have with
>>>>>Apple is now a fact of life. Apple will continue to work on
>>>>>accessibility, but at least those I've talked to don't have much
>>>>>love for the NFB for undermining and belittling their hard
>>>>>work. IMO, that's exactly what we did. Joseph On Sun, Sep 04,
>>>>>2011 at 09:10:18AM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote: >Say, How do you
>>>>>know for sure that the people at Apple are now unwilling to work
>>>>>with us? I fear we are really going down the wrong road
>>>>>now. My hope is that this situation is not irreparable. What I
>>>>>intend to do with this is write and open letter to Dr. Maurer
>>>>>about this and include many of the points we discussed
>>>>>here. Look, it seems to me that we can choose the more hostile
>>>>>relationship; in which case we stand a chance of loosing what
>>>>>accessibility to Apple we already have; or, we can choose to try
>>>>>to repair what we can and build a positive relationship and get
>>>>>working together on this. IF we let Anger be the driving force
>>>>>behind what we do, we will destroy all the good work we've done
>>>>>so far. I see us changing; and, frankly, I do not like it. It
>>>>>seems to me that we're running the risk of loosing something
>>>>>very valuable as an organization. I'm afraid that if we keep
>>>>>this up, we'll have happen to us what Dr. Jernigan warned us
>>>>>about in his banquet speech in 1997. > >What are we becoming
>>>>>when we let this happen to us? > > >Sincerely, >The Constantly
>>>>>Barefooted Ray!!! >
>>>>>>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!! > >Skype name:
>>>>>>barefootedray > >Facebook: >facebook.com/r ay.foretjr.1 > > > >On
>>>>>Sep 4, 2011, at 8:00 AM, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > >> I can tell
>>>>>you that people in Apple's accessibility department have reacted
>>>>>negatively enough to BOTH of the resolutions that they are not
>>>>>the least bit inclined to work with us in the future. >> >> I
>>>>>believe the exact words, at least those I'm willing to quote
>>>>>here on the mailing list, were that the NFB can go to hell. I
>>>>>won't say where this individual said we could stick our
>>>>>resolutions. >> >> Corporate policy remains 100% accessibility,
>>>>>but we have alienated Apple who is trying to do the right thing
>>>>>while we suck up to Google for their continued bad
>>>>>behavior. >> >> The resolutions were both seen at Apple, and
>>>>>they've already had an impact on Apple's willingness to work
>>>>>with us to further improve accessibility. Just
>>>not the impact anyone but Freedom Scientific was hoping for. >>
>>>>>>>But Apple is evil, so it doesn't matter. And Google is awesome,
>>>>>so who cares if they do anything
>>>>>accessibly? Right? Right? >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Sep
>>>>>03, 2011 at 06:17:46PM -0500, Ray Foret Jr wrote: >>> But,
>>>>>Peter, I ask you. Would you be forever in a war camp
>>>>>mode? Just think of the resolution concerning Google and the
>>>>>ones concerning Apple. Why the disparity? A fair question I
>>>>>think. >>> >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>>> >>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!! >>> >>> Skype
>>>>>>>> name: barefootedray >>> >>> Facebook: >>>
>>>>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 >>> >>> >>> On Sep 3, 2011, at
>>>>>>>> 3:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>> Hello Ray and
>>>>>>>> everyone, >>>> >>>> The wording was fine.
>>>>>It's the "Let's be grateful" attitude that makes folks >>>> feel
>>>>>otherwise. >>>> >>>> Peter Donahue >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original
>>>>>Message ----- >>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net> >>>>
>>>>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent:
>>>>>Saturday, September 03, 2011 3:23 PM >>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>[Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't pass about
>>>>>apple >>>> >>>> >>>> Not with me Peter. We need to strongly
>>>>>encourage people, not bitch at them.
>>>>>>>>>We need to change the wording of the resolution so that it has
>>>>>the desired >>>> effect without being bitchy about it. There
>>>>>are times we need to use a >>>> hammer, and other times, a
>>>>>feather will do just as well. So, we commend >>>> Google for
>>>>>trying to be accessible but bitch at Apple even though they
>>>>>are >>>> more accessible than Google? Tell me, is it because
>>>>>Google paid us money, >>>> (being a sponsor of our convention)
>>>>>and Apple didn't? What kind of outfit >>>> are we when we stoop
>>>>>to that level? >>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sorry for the language, but, that's the way it is. >>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sincerely, >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>> >>>> Now
>>>>>a very proud and happy Mac user!!! >>>> >>>> Skype name: >>>>
>>>>>barefootedray >>>> >>>> Facebook: >>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Peter Donahue
>>>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Cheryl and everyone, >>>>> >>>>> The
>>>>>wording was fine with me. >>>>> >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "cheryl echevarria"
>>>>><cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> >>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List"
>>>>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011
>>>>>12:25 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Resolution that didn't
>>>>>pass about apple >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The issue was the wording of
>>>>>the Resolution, if I remember correctly, that >>>>> it was to
>>>>>harsh, and for it to pass that we all had to agree on the >>>>> wording.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> it has nothing to do with the Resolution as a whole,
>>>>>but the wording of >>>>> the >>>>> resolution couldn't be
>>>>>passed, it can be brought to the floor of >>>>> convention >>>>>
>>>>>next year, to be voted on again >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Leading the
>>>>>Way in Independent Travel! >>>>> >>>>> Cheryl Echevarria >>>>>
>>>>>http://www.echevarriatravel.com >>>>> 631-456-5394 >>>>>
>>>>>reservations at echevarriatravel.com >>>>> >>>>> Affiliated as an
>>>>>Independent Contractor with Superior Travel, located in >>>>>
>>>>>Baldwin, NY. www.superiortravel.com >>>>> >>>>> Affiliated as an
>>>>>Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, >>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "cheryl
>>>>>echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com> >>>>> To: "Blind Talk
>>>>>Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday,
>>>>>September 03, 2011 12:58 PM >>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Resolution
>>>>>that didn't pass about apple >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well maybe
>>>>>people on this list that voted against it elaborate as to
>>>>>why >>>>>> they voted against it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Leading
>>>>>the Way in Independent Travel!
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Cheryl Echevarria >>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.echevarriatravel.com >>>>>> 631-456-5394 >>>>>>
>>>>>reservations at echevarriatravel.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Affiliated as an
>>>>>Independent Contractor with Superior Travel, located in >>>>>>
>>>>>Baldwin, NY. www.superiortravel.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Affiliated as
>>>>>an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, >>>>>> Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Ray
>>>>>Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net> >>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing
>>>>>List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 02,
>>>>>2011 4:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [Bulk] Re: a great article >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah yes, I have a recording of the stream of that
>>>>>particular days' >>>>>>> events. I must say, that was quite an
>>>>>episode. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> The
>>>>>Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now a very proud
>>>>>and happy Mac user!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skype name: >>>>>>> barefootedray >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Facebook: >>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1 >>>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>>Sep 2, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Marsha Drenth
>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An example of not all of us following
>>>>>like zombies, at the national >>>>>>>> convention. A resolution
>>>>>about apple. Don't quite remember the >>>>>>>> wordage,
>>>>>but >>>>>>>> it did not pass. More than half of the floor voted
>>>>>against it. If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>were >>>>>>>> at the convention you would know what I am
>>>>>talking about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was one of the many who voted
>>>>>against the resolution. I didn't think >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> was
>>>>>fair, and not something the NFB needed to make an resolution for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Others are welcome to chime in here... >>>>>>>>
>>>>>Marsha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>Of Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 10:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>[Blindtlk] a great article >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> no point in rehashing the lost funds as
>>>>>they have been forgiven in the >>>>>>>> midwest. >>>>>>>> i was
>>>>>the only one to push the issue and was blasted for it.
>>>>>it's >>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>> like that which make the nfb taste
>>>>>bitter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not all of us just follow in line like
>>>>>zombies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd like to see more examples of
>>>>>that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Marsha
>>>>>Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: "'Blind Talk
>>>>>Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>>>>September 01, 2011 8:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This thread is very tiring, very
>>>>>frustrating and gets us no where. So >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NFB members never ask the tough questions, and look the
>>>>>other way. >>>>>>>>> What >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> the illegal
>>>>>behavior your speaking of? I am pretty sure if there
>>>>>was >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> illegal behavior, we just as much
>>>>>any other person would ask the >>>>>>>>> "tough" >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>questions. Not all of us just follow in line like
>>>>>zombies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If your so anti-NFB, why do you
>>>>>hang out here. Your welcome to leave >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>time. We would rather you go away. So our list can go back to
>>>>>being >>>>>>>>> constructive and productive. Oh wait that is
>>>>>right, we are all lyres, >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> allow illegal
>>>>>behavior, and follow like zombies. You can think what >>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>want. But this skirting around subjects does nothing. We
>>>>>are not >>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>> change our minds about what
>>>>>we think. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marsha >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From:
>>>>>blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:07 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
>>>>>[Blindtlk] a great article >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hi, >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>no, i'm not accusing anyone, the event already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>happened. the point is don't ask tough questions unless you have
>>>>>thick skin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing
>>>>>List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September
>>>>>01, 2011 5:49 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I see, my mistake. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>aren't taking pot shots at the ACB without facts to back it up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You >>>>>>>>>> are taking pot shots at the NFB without
>>>>>facts. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It takes a lot of guts to come into
>>>>>an organization and start >>>>>>>>>> accusing >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>members of vaguely illegal activities without offering
>>>>>any specifics >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> evidence. But I'm sure
>>>>>doing so will get you all the consideration >>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> due. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> And with that, I
>>>>>think I'm about finished with the
>>>>>discussion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Joseph -
>>>>>KF7QZC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at
>>>>>05:36:54PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> no, i'm not talking about the acb but the
>>>>>point still applies. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T.
>>>>>Joseph Carter" >>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing
>>>>>List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday,
>>>>>September 01, 2011 5:09 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a
>>>>>great article >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I suggest if
>>>>>that helps you maximize your involvement with and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>benefit >>>>>>>>>>>> from an organization, you find
>>>>>another organization. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps though,
>>>>>we don't want to go down this road, or at least >>>>>>>>>>>> not in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this fashion. The ACB has in the past allowed its
>>>>>members to make >>>>>>>>>>>> baseless, unsupported, and
>>>>>uncontested claims of illegal behavior >>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>the >>>>>>>>>>>> NFB. It was rather off-putting, and I'd have
>>>>>thought so even if I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>were >>>>>>>>>>>> not a Federationist! Indeed, it
>>>>>seems always to be so, in any >>>>>>>>>>>> organization, whether
>>>>>or not I have any affiliation with
>>>>>anybody. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If there's something new and
>>>>>recent that needs to be discussed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>regarding >>>>>>>>>>>> the ACB, we should probably do
>>>>>it, but in a new thread with the >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>relevant >>>>>>>>>>>> details. If it's a rehash of old
>>>>>wrongdoings by former officers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I >>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> know how
>>>>>useful it would be to debate today. It's like discussing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>>>> questionable action taken by Janet Reno
>>>>>while she worked for Bill >>>>>>>>>>>> Clinton. Anyone
>>>>>personally affected would find it relevant, but >>>>>>>>>>>> society
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as a whole wouldn't be interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>today. >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes the bad guys get away with it. Usually when
>>>>>the good >>>>>>>>>>>> guys >>>>>>>>>>>> don't stand up to them
>>>>>until its too late. But that takes me off >>>>>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>own tangent. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KF7QZC >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at
>>>>>03:53:02PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be at least one more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #16. Don't ask tough questions even when a member
>>>>>does something >>>>>>>>>>>>> questionable and probably illegal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bryan Schulz >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NABS
>>>>>list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "Blind Talk list" >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Gary Legates" <gary.legates at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM Subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>[Blindtlk] a great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>article >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Hi everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As I try to learn more about both organizations, I
>>>>>have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> both the
>>>>>Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum. The Monitor, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>know, is the Federation (NFB's) publication and the
>>>>>Forum is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Council (or ACB's)
>>>>>publication. I found a great article in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> July's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize your ACB
>>>>>Membership," >>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fifteen tips
>>>>>on how to take advantage of all ACB (or any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>organization, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that matter) has to offer. I
>>>>>think this could also apply to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>Federation and to NABS or any other special-interest division,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> some good advice. To be
>>>>>accurate, I added "or NFB" in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> parentheses to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>some parts of the article. I have pasted the
>>>>>article below. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts on
>>>>>this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but
>>>>>want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about both. Here is
>>>>>the article. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE
>>>>>YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All too often, people join organizations without
>>>>>taking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity to truly know
>>>>>intricate details of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mission, and operating practices. This can very
>>>>>well result in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lack >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>participation and could ultimately result in a
>>>>>decision to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your
>>>>>life, build >>>>>>>>>>>>>> great >>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationships
>>>>>and effectively share personal skills and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> make an enormous difference. In
>>>>>an effort to encourage you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>explore >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningful efforts of
>>>>>ACB, I have included the tips listed below >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you in being all you can be and help you join with
>>>>>others whose >>>>>>>>>>>>>> skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>> complement yours.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask
>>>>>questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Become familiar with the history,
>>>>>mission, and purpose by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing it often enough
>>>>>to be able to repeat it to others. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>someone may realize that this is the organization
>>>>>they have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Make a personal commitment to identify ways to
>>>>>get involved. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Find out who the officers are
>>>>>and become acquainted with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them and their roles
>>>>>and responsibilities, as well as members >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>observe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively participating in
>>>>>events and projects associated with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>organization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Make your skills
>>>>>and abilities known to leaders of your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter,
>>>>>affiliate, or the president of our organization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>6. Make every effort to participate in chapter, state affiliate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and national meetings, seminars, conferences and
>>>>>conventions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Inquire about available
>>>>>committees you may be able to serve >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on to assist
>>>>>the organization in achieving its goals and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> objectives.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Seek >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to join committees that allow
>>>>>you to utilize your skills and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> abilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most effective and efficient
>>>>>manner. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8. If you have access to the Internet,
>>>>>sign up for up-to-date >>>>>>>>>>>>>> news and announcements
>>>>>from all levels of our organization. Ask >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> president >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or member to tell you
>>>>>how to take advantage of this option. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Listen
>>>>>to or read publications/newsletters distributed by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>organization on all levels. This is one of the best
>>>>>ways to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>awards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming
>>>>>projects and events. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Identify
>>>>>special-interest groups that meet your personal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>needs. These groups provide you the opportunity to network
>>>>>with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sharing common interests, such as your prior or
>>>>>current >>>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hobbies,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>health concerns and so much more. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11.
>>>>>Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the agreed-upon operating
>>>>>practices and procedures of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>12. Prepare for future involvement as an officer by
>>>>>becoming >>>>>>>>>>>>>> familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>13. Participate in conference calls to build your
>>>>>knowledge, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such as membership focus calls,
>>>>>periodic Office Hours conference >>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the ACB president, committee calls, and
>>>>>special-interest group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>14. Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>our national organization. You may locate
>>>>>information on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> web site >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you didn't think of inquiring about. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>15. Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the same. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more you know and the
>>>>>more you become involved, the more you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will begin
>>>>>to know that you have joined a phenomenal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>organization that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing to
>>>>>grow. Have a great ACB (or NFB)
>>>>>adventure! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>Nusbaum >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the
>>>>
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