[Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Ray Foret Jr rforetjr at att.net
Sun Dec 16 17:49:51 UTC 2012 

Okay, so, let me see if I've got this straight now.  This woman cannot function without a cane?  Didn't quite pick that up the first time.  As for your home; well, it's your home; but, just one small point.  Suppose a blind person uses neither dog or cane; but, appears to be able to function well not withstanding?  I still reckon you'd do better with pursuation rather than force.  Seems to me that this situation is becoming a little more interesting than a blind woman just not using a cane because just because.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray
Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!

On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:38 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
>    The article is called "The Nature of Independence." The person in 
> question is a woman. If we're being unreasonable other chapter members 
> including the president went farther and tried to keep this individual from 
> joining the chapter. The individual was removed from the call list for 
> meeting notification a situation we learned of and put a stop too. This is 
> but one of many problems that have plagued our chapter during the year. 
> Please keep us in your prayers that we can begin putting things right next 
> month when we elect new officers for 2013. As for our home we make the rules 
> here. If you depend on a travel aid for your independence and can't function 
> without it if you wish to visit you're expected to use it. That's a non 
> negotiable with us. We'll keep you posted on what happens.
> 
> Peter Donahue
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brian Miller" <brianrmiller88 at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
> 
> 
> Dear Peter,
> 
> I think Dianne gives some excellent advice here.  Your example of competent
> travel, using dog or cane, will do much more than any tough love tactics you
> may employ. You can only show this person another way, you can't force them
> to embrace it.
> 
> Being there for this person, even when they make poor choices, all the while
> you show him an alternative will go a long way.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Brian Miller
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of pkt52 at aol.com
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:29 AM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>> 
>> Diane - what a kind and logical response!   I love what you
>> have written!!!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
>> To: blinddog3 <blinddog3 at charter.net>; 'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 10:24 am
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> Does anyone remember the article Dr. Jernigan wrote about
>> this dilemma? The name of the article is escaping me at this
>> time, but I remember that at the end, the gist of the writing
>> was summarized by a statement along the lines of "whether
>> dog, or cane or human arm" the choice belongs to the
>> individual, and the overall objective is to get where you
>> need to go and do what you need to do.
>> 
>> In the NFB, we meet people at all levels. Some are newly
>> blind, others re blind people who have been sheltered all of
>> their lives, others are people that are so independent that
>> they think they could climb a skyscraper and survive. (A
>> little over the top there, but you know what I mean.)
>> 
>> Anyway, our job is not to judge them or dictate to them. Our
>> job is to meet them where they are and do our best to help
>> them. Whether or not they accept that help is up to them. The
>> behavior that you are describing is one reason that many
>> blind people don't want anything to do with the federation.
>> It sounds to me like the members are refusing their
>> friendship on the basis of his decision. Do you really think
>> that is going to help him?
>> 
>> If one is so uncaring that they would call someone a cab and
>> send them home at their expense, then why in the world would
>> they have to take anyone to the emergency room? Call an ambulance.
>> 
>> With conditional friendship like that, I'm not sure why
>> anyone would want to visit these members or be a part of the
>> chapter anyway. He could, incidentally refuse to get into the
>> cab and ride home at his expense.
>> 
>> For the record, I think it is a foolish decision myself, but
>> I wouldn't refuse friendship on that basis, any more than I
>> would refuse friendship on the basis of whether someone was
>> too thin or too fat, or of another culture or any number of
>> other characteristics. When you think about it, maybe
>> actually being escorted/lead by a few blind people would
>> teach this guy that he could, in  fact, learn to travel himself.
>> 
>> Finally, I would just point out that, while there are a good
>> many sighted people who have a healthy perspective about
>> blindness, there are some sighted people who have some
>> ridiculous ideas. It may very well be true that some crazy
>> neurologist did tell him that a cane might aggravate his
>> seizure disorder. You just don't know.
>> 
>> Diane Graves
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 AM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>> 
>> Peter,
>> Although I am not an attorney, I am well-versed in the ADA,
>> and with all due respect, I do not believe the ADA has any
>> application here as the concept of direct threat, applies to
>> Title I, covering provisions of employment; not Titles II or
>> III.  It's a choice by this individual to go out into public
>> without the use of an aide such as a cane, or guide, but
>> their choice is sighted guide.  They are not posing a risk to
>> anyone but themselves, but I can assure you that if this
>> person was employed, the application might be viable.
>> 
>> Steve
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Peter Donahue
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:53 AM
>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List; Daniel Carr; NFBnet Blind
>> Law Mailing List; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>> 
>> Good morning everyone,
>> 
>>    An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved
>> to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is
>> totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They
>> recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be
>> helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event.
>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person
>> showed up without their cane. When later questioned about
>> this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They
>> told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors
>> recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's
>> having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with
>> a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact
>> that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a
>> cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one
>> of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident
>> cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
>> well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other
>> successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself
>> have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog
>> depending on the situation.
>> 
>>    The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready
>> been told by several members in the area that if they wish to
>> visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get
>> from their transportation in to our residence and if
>> necessary use the cane during their visit.
>> 
>>    When attempting to reason with the person in question
>> members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard
>> all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane
>> proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists
>> are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
>> travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the
>> contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we
>> also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in
>> the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had
>> a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their
>> ability to travel independently and on the importance of
>> using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if
>> they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will
>> call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense
>> something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and
>> using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The
>> last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the
>> emergency room when we know that an individual has complete
>> disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It
>> seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in
>> this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers
>> can help us wit this one.
>> 
>>    We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of
>> independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we
>> won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more
>> effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the
>> alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly.
>> Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper."
>> Isaiah 54:17
>> 
>> "While for our princes they prepare
>> In caverns deep a burning snare,
>> He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
>> And the dark treachery brought to day."
>> Anonymous
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
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