[Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization of the blind?

Thu Jan 19 06:53:25 UTC 2012

Dave, with respect sir, I fear you somewhat misunderstood me.  Let me state  clearly and for the official record that I am all for the blind driver car.  I'm just trying to raise what I feel are points that ought not be neglected.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

Facebook:
facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1

On Jan 18, 2012, at 11:21 PM, David Andrews wrote:

> Ray:
> 
> I think you and Mike have asked some important questions.  However, like with most things, it is a matter of balance.  Without a dream, we won't accomplish much.  On the other hand that dream shouldn't uuuuuuuuhhhhhmmmmmmmm blind us to reality either.  I think we need to try this and see where it will go.  It is to early to tear it down because it might not work.  Yes, there are social and legal implications that need to be explored, but I think we need to have technology that is better developed first.  You don't take that stuff on before you have something that works, and works well.
> 
> Often it is not what we say -- but how we say it.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 11:03 PM 1/18/2012, you wrote:
>> Well, Mike, once again, you and I agree completely.  Look, I'm all for the blind drivable car; however, I question the direction we seem to be taking with it.  I'm not saying don't rely on the technology; but, we need to seriously ask ourselves this.  What will we do when (not if mind you but when) the technology fails?  I'm not going to name names here; but, once I asked this question and got all but accused of being a trator.  No, please don't ask me to tell who it was; for if so, I shan't.
>> 
>> I feel that we need to take a different approach with this.  I'd like to see a solution that doesn't rely so much on the technology.  As I view the picture, it's not the technology which will allow a lbind person to drive.  It's a matter of getting information.  So, these are the points from which I would start.
>> 
>> 1.  How much information is so much information that a quick decition cannot be made while driving?
>> 
>> 2.  How little information is too little to make a quick decition while driving?
>> 
>> 3.  How can the right ammount of information be aquired and how can it be done as simply as possible?  I fear that too much reliance on the technology alone will truly set back the goal of a blind person driving.  In short, do not rely only on the technology.  Find better alternative ways of getting the information you need.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>> 
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>> 
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>> 
>> Facebook:
>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 18, 2012, at 9:59 PM, Mike Freeman wrote:
>> 
>> > Debbie:
>> >
>> > I'm not Bryan, but ...
>> >
>> > I am concerned that any time anyone expresses skepticism re the
>> > blind-drivable car, he/she is automatically accused of not having faith, of
>> > not being visionary, of not daring to dream, etc. Well, just as there are
>> > plenty of humanists and atheists who are good peple and who have contributed
>> > much to this country (the protests of the religious to the contrary
>> > notwithstanding), there are many skeptics (including me) who are loyal
>> > Federationists but who at the very least think that in our enthusiasm for
>> > the blind-drivable car, we are foolishly minimizing the difficulties (most
>> > but not all of which are social/legal rather than technical). We shouldn't
>> > be accused of lack of orthodoxy or disloyalty simply because we choose to
>> > see the cup as half-empty rather than half-full.
>> >
>> > Although I remain skeptical that the blind-drivable car will come to
>> > fruition in my lifetime (I'm ... lessee ... 63), I think the research may
>> > have many other benefits and ... I could be wrong. But I think we, the NFB,
>> > aren't putting *nearly* the resources and thought into other aspects of the
>> > problem such as legal and social impediments to blind-drivable cars that we
>> > should be doing. To me, that's not nay-saying; that's common sense. And we
>> > haven't even considered the problem of what we are to do when we reach our
>> > destinations, still ignorant im many cases of the environment we will face.
>> >
>> > Part of my difficulty is that, even in the realm of science fiction, I
>> > expect the universe to be logically worked-out so that there are no logical
>> > inconsistencies and such that everything implies or can be extrapolated from
>> > everything else. I think we should plan foreign policy, domestic policy and
>> > everything else with this consistency in mind. I fear me greatly that we of
>> > NFB aren't doing this wrt the blind-drivable car.
>> >
>> > Bottom line: we need both optimists and dreamers and pessimists that say:
>> > "hey! Wait a minute!" in order to craft the wisest policies.
>> >
>> > What would I do differently? Not much. But I think we're going to have to
>> > put *far* more effort into making software and devices than our leadership
>> > and most of the membership believes. We're beginning to discuss this on the
>> > Computer Science list and in the R&D Committee.
>> >
>> > In summation, I think we should proceed full speed ahead. But I think we
>> > should have a very clear-eyed, gloss-over-nothing view of what we're
>> > tackling.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf Of Debbie Wunder
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:59 PM
>> > To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe
>> > blind?
>> >
>> > Hi, well it seems to me if explorers before us did not believe in flight,
>> > telegraph, telephone, penecillan etc... where would we be?
>> >
>> > I am interested to hear what your thoughts are about what our goals shold
>> > be?
>> >
>> > Debbie
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:06 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organizationofthe
>> > blind?
>> >
>> >
>> >> hi,
>> >>
>> >> there's a difference in shooting for goals and waiting for pie in the sky
>> >> technology.
>> >>
>> >> Bryan Schulz
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Sheila Leigland
>> >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:47 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] why is it important to join an organization ofthe
>> >
>> >> blind?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hello all, I've heard about doses of reality. If I and my husband had
>> >> bought in to this kind of logic, we never would have gone to college,
>> >> gotten married, raised our son, and worked. If I had listened to the
>> >> advice of everyone we wouldn't have taken ourselves and our son to the nfb
>> >
>> >> convention in 1996 from Montana by train and went to disneyland without
>> >> sighted assistance our son was eight at the time so although he could see
>> >> we were very much in control of the situation. Dreams and goals can be
>> >> crushed by to much so called reality. It doesn't mean that we don't try to
>> >
>> >> plan out things but we aren't afraid to try.
>> >>
>> >> sheila leigland
> 
> 
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