[Blindtlk] NFB Guide Dog Program

Tue Mar 19 18:06:30 UTC 2013

Hello Danielle and everyone,

    Even The Seeing Eye's policies are no longer up to my expectations of 
how a guide dog program should treat its blind students and alumni. I have a 
problem with an organization that still believes that guide dog puppy 
raisers and their blind graduates are incapable of managing their own 
desires to communicate with each other and the graduates of such programs 
buy in to this kind of nonsense! SE along with many other guide dog programs 
have yet to include blind persons in their training departments as guide dog 
trainers and class instructors. And there's those awful long periods of 
down-time!Someone like myself would fail miserably at a course in inmate 
101. I could not stand the confinement. Guide dog programs need to give all 
students in training opportunities to leave the school grounds with their 
dogs on their own to reinforce the idea that they can travel anywhere any 
time with their dogs and can do it with absolute confidence. I was fortunate 
to receive in-home training when I received Johnny in 2007 thank God! At 
home I was able to be with my wife and work on the computer and could work 
Johnny in our immediate area prior to completion of the training. I was able 
to go grocery shopping and a few other places prior to termination of the 
training and knew in my heart that Johnny and I were a great team. This is 
the kind of belief that guide dog programs need to instill in their students 
before they leave for home. One can bond just as easily visiting Ground 0, 
or shopping in downtown Morristown by themselves or with other class members 
rather than sitting around the school dorm twiddling their thumbs, having 
fantasies about falling in love with girls from other schools for the blind 
that they know from Eve and who probably wouldn't be interested anyway. This 
is what I call a waist of time and public contributions.

    The use of sleep shades by guide dog programs for students in training 
is next to nonexistent. None of them base their programs on the 
Structured-Discovery Model nor do they operate them based on the NFB's 
philosophy. But the saddest thing of all is that to the best of my knowledge 
none of our guide dog programs    has signed on to the NFB's Guide Dog 
User's Bill of Rights and graduates of these programs are not doing enough 
to persuade them to do so. They make much ado over the need to protect the 
welfare of their dogs but fail to recognize that the blind persons they 
serve are consumers and also have rights to be honored and expectations 
these programs should meet and exceed. Given the state of our guide dog 
programs it's not likely that I'll seek another dog unless drastic changes 
in the way guide dog programs conduct their training and treat consumers of 
their services occur. I know other blind people who felt the same way and 
decided not to obtain replacement dogs.

    It's for this reason that I and I'm sure others would like to see the 
NFB create its own guide dog program. Before going on some history is in 
order. Those familiar with the history of The Seeing Eye know that the 
school began in 1929 the same year the stock market crashed plunging our 
nation in to the Great Depression of the 1930s. Yet despite the bleak 
economic outlook of those years The Seeing Eye was able to raise the capital 
it needed to construct training and residential facilities and operate its 
programs. It was a classic case of when the going got tough the tough got 
going and the school thrived despite the state of the U.S. economy in the 
1930s.

    The NFB has developed alternatives to just about every type of program 
or service a blind person would want so why not a federation-run guide dog 
program? Of course it wouldn't be open for business next week, but the ball 
must begin rolling somewhere. Our Jernigan Institute took a number of years 
to construct and a capital campaign was needed to raise the needed funds for 
its construction and startup. The creation of an NFB guide dog program would 
be no different. If there are those wishing to undertake such a program 
without taking funds away from our other programs and activities their 
efforts should be supported and encouraged.

    On numerous occasions I've suggested to the president of the National 
Association of Guide Dog Users and to others that this subject be given air 
time during the national convention but have repeatedly been told that the 
guide dog programs we now have meet our needs just fine. My answer to such 
rubbish is "By whose standards?"Certainly not mine! We're tired of our 
requests for discussion of the establishment of an NFB guide dog program 
during our national convention falling on deaf ears!I'd like to be proven 
wrong this summer.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danielle Antoine" <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup

Peter, Amen and Hallelujah! the seeing Eye's policies just fit my
personal philosophy. It is why after doing much extensive research and
consideration I always go back to TSE! I view the ownership and
mandatory follow-ups by most of the schools as degrading and akin to
workshop pay. something is wrong with this lack of trust in in the
quality they put out. graduates should be treated as the grown adults
they are not as grade-schoolers where ththey must be checked up on and
 graded so to speak. TSE never ever checks up on its grad and they
only come when and if you ever need them....providing honest and fair
assessments. Only way I'll ever go anywhere else is if they should
ever refuse me service or my health requirements dictate.

Sometimes, circumstances beyond our control interferes with a team and
shortens the working relationship and that should be taken into
consideration by the schools retaining ownership. JMO and personal
experience!

On 12/16/12, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Money money money!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Diane
> Graves
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 11:13 AM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
> Now that would be a good idea. After all, we have a strong O&M program run
> by our own for cane users. Why *not* have a guide dog program? I like that
> idea.
>
> Diane Graves
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:49 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Canes and Dogs, the In-House Checkup
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>     I'm increasingly becoming convinced that some of this misunderstanding
> is being generated by our own guide dog users and not just those outside
> the
> federation. This came clear to me judging from the reactions of those
> attending this year's NAGDU Meeting in Dallas last summer concerning
> several
> issues being discussed.
>     For years the NFB has been trying to convince guide dog schools to end
> the practice of retaining ownership of their dogs and adopt a policy
> similar
> to that of The Seeing Eye. Put simply as Lucas Frank said last summer "We
> have no (Ownership policy)! When students complete training they leave the
> school with their dog and it is there's."We also know that a number of
> schools that retain ownership have wrongfully taken dogs from their
> handlers
> with no explaination of why. We just picketted Amazon last Wednesday. I'll
> retract this belief concerning the use of guide dogs when NAGDU organizes
> pickets of guide dog programs that wrongfully take dogs from their blind
> handlers to bring public awareness to this shabby practice.
>
>         Likewise I worked with several NAGDU Members to craft a "Guide Dog
> consumer Bill of Rights." During the NAGDU meeting schools at the
> convention
> were asked to indicate whether or not they would "Sign on" and recognize
> the
> rights of the blind consumers they serve. Some refused to comment. Others
> side-stepped the issue all together and still others wanted to 
> "Negotiate."
>
> I shure hope we don't go down the negotiation path and allow these outfits
> to water down this document. As far as I know not one guide dog program 
> has
> signed on to the Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights.
>
>     Going back to the matter of ownership retention when Marion Gwizdala
> and
> a few others spoke out strongly against the beliefs of guide dog programs
> that ownership was necessary pittifully few in attendence applauded. Yet
> these same people joind others to help bring the house down when it came 
> to
> cheering on those that spoke in opposition to the continued payment of
> subminamum wages to blind shop workers! If you asked me something is very
> wrong with that picture!
>
>     If the NFB was more agressive in addressing these matters we would be
> more visible and people would know that we do indeed recognize one's 
> choice
> to use a guide dog for independent travel and are a force in the affairs 
> of
> guide dog users. If folks find this offensive I'll gladly retrack what I
> said when the following conditions are met:
>
> 1. Greater publicity is given to the practice of ownership retention of
> dogs
> by guide dog schools.
> 2. All schools recognize the NFB'S Guide Dog Consumer Bill of Rights as it
> was originally drafted.
> 3. More is done to urge all guide dog programs to employ blind persons as
> guide dog trainers and class instructors.
> 4. (This is the big one.) We entertain discussion concerning the NFB'S
> establishing its own guide dog program; a program operated by guide dog
> users for guide dog users!
>
>     I have repeatedly suggested such a discussion to President Gwizddala
> but
> to date it has not been an item for discussion during the NAGDU Meeting.
>
>     If there are still folks that think we're anty guide dog we should 
> look
> within our organization to see if there are actions and lack of actions
> that
> are still perpetuating this myth. Persuing more agressive solutions to the
> issues I've discussed above could put us further down the road to ending
> this misunderstanding. All the best.
>
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
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